Inspiration...

Dustin is a playwright from Seattle with an intriguing problem...

His latest creation takes place in

"various locations in Seattle and London...a large part of the second half of the play takes place in a kind of run down hotel in Greenwich...mainly because of it being on the prime meridian. That fact that its run down can be fictional, but I'm looking for something old with a lot of character and a fun name to it and to know what street(s) it is on. Can you help/think of anything? "

The Phantom replies:

Curiously enough, Dustin, for a town that has many tourists, Greenwich has very few hotels with any kind of character. Most of our hotels tend to be unexciting corporate jobs - the Ibis, for example, The Novotel or even Devonport House, which is in the grounds of the Old Royal Naval College, and yet still manages to be unexciting. There are a couple of rather nice (and quirky) B&Bs - Number 16 St Alphege's Passage, for example, round behind the church - but it's not run down.

If you want run-down, you need to cross Blackheath to the imposing-looking Clarendon Hotel. From the outside it looks glamorous indeed, surveying the heath and looking across at Greenwich Park (I'd say it was a few hundred yards from the meridian.) A series of of 18th Century buildings, I'd guess, with the name picked out in big red letters, lushly glowing across the heath at night. A glass canopy gives a dry walk from the gravel car park to the door. It all says 'posh.' Inside, it's a different story. I calculate it was last decorated some time around the early 1980s, and, in hotel terms, unless you're going for 'retro.' that's a long time ago. There are a few reception-y sort of areas upstairs, with a bar, and downstairs some more not-terribly exciting bars with furniture that's a bit too big for the size of the rooms. None of it's truly nasty - it's just tired. I can't remember whether it has two or three stars, but I'd guess two.

This place could be a palace - and with a view and a building like that, should be one of the classiest hotels in London. Instead, its main business seems to be from discount coach tours and cheap package deals (doubles start at £100, which for London ain't bad) and on that kind of custom refurbishing doens't look like it's going to be on the cards for some time.

By-the-by and slightly off-topic, I noticed that at Reception they were advertising for sale all three of Neil Rhind's books on Blackheath, including the out-of-print second volume of Blackheath Village and Environs. Now, knowing that the hotel isn't famous for its up-to-dateness, it could be an old sign - but it might be worth a try - especially if you live in the Westcombe Park area and are interested in its history.

You know, Dustin? I reckon your best bet would be to invent the run-down hotel of your dreams. Possibly around the West Greenwich area - Nevada St, Royal Hill, Crooms Hill (an ancient road) though if you really want somewhere on the meridian, you should think about creating a place on Park Vista (I THINK that it crosses it) Trafalgar Road or close to the power station. In fact - here's an idea. Why not make the Cutty Sark pub an inn too - it may well have been at one point. It's on Ballast Quay, it's 18th century, it's a few yards from the meridian, VERY pretty and it's lapped by the Thames. If you sit outside of an evening you can sip your pint, looking out at the laser that follows the meridian line.

But maybe other people have a suggestion. Can you suggest either a run-down hotel or somewhere that could have a fictitious run-down hotel for Dustin?

Let us know how it goes, Dustin...

New Restaurant on the Thames

Chris asks:

"I live at Anchor Iron Wharf next to the old Power Station and was wondering is you can give me an update on what is the happening the glass fronted restaurant owned by Frank Dowling, I believe it is going to be called the viewpoint bar, local intelligence suggests it was meant to be open in Jan of this year, but as you are probably fully aware it has remained an empty shell ever since I moved in as the first resident over 5 years ago."

The Phantom replies:

Curiously (and sadly, too - I think they could do with all the PR they can get and, contrary to popular belief, I am not totally anti-Inc) I am not part of Greenwich Inc's network of marketing contacts so I guess I have about as much idea as you about what's going on there, Chris. I certainly don't think it would be a disaster - after all, it's an empty space just now; they're not taking over someone else's place and it would be good to get something in there (I'm curious about that bit of land in front, btw - is it really theirs to slap a 'private' sign on, or has it been appropriated? I think we should be told.) I think it's somewhere that could be quite good, if they get it right.

I don't, incidentally, think the Cutty Sark pub is in any danger - it has a loyal clientele and any new place would attract its own custom.

Certainly at the moment there seems to be a big fat zero on the activity meter at - what did you call it - the Viewpoint Bar. I would hope that something will happen soon - either that or that they get off the pot...

Inline Woes

A red-faced Nigel has raised the issue of rollerblading in Greenwich Park:

"I have just walked back from Greenwich park after being told by the local plod, that Roller Blading was 'banned in the park'. I asked since when; he replied 'Since forever, we have been told that any offenders must be reported.' WOW!

He didn't report me as I believe he felt a bit stupid telling me, but that's it, all the kids, families who bought their shiny blades have nowhere to go. Unless you can suggest somewhere?"

The Phantom replies:

You know I've always had a sneaking desire to have a go at rollerblading. I haven't, of course, having a) no sense of balance b) no sense of co-ordination c) no level of personal fitness, but all the same it looks fun.

I can understand why they don't want people bombing around Greenwich Park (especially people like me - I really would be a danger to myself and others) but it does seem a shame that there isn't anywhere to play safely.

The Thames Path would be one option - though please - not the bit outside the Royal Naval College - I'm always being buffeted by cyclists who insist on ploughing their bikes through the people walking there when it's only five foot wide, and rollerblades would just make it worse. That really narrow bit's only about 100 metres long for heaven's sake - can't they just walk that little distance? The rest is fine - I cycle myself there - but that tiny path's crazy.

For the moment, I reckon that the Peninsula has wide enough paths and few enough people for you to be able to work up a bit of speed without too many problems.

I've always thought that that bit under the Woolwich Road Flyover could be adapted to make a skateboard park - though the fumes would, naturally, hasten an early death for the participants.

Any other suggestions?

Black Plumes and Clattering Cobbles

Shannon says:

"At about 12:30 today along college approach I saw a very fancy horse drawn carriage go by with two very fine black horses prancing quickly; each had a huge black feather/plume on its head and silver bridles; two men driving the carriage also very nicely dressed; the small carriage was black and had a coffin it it and then a small box at the back of the carriage; the carriage itself was all enclosed with glass so you could see inside; 3 or so black herses follwed it......all going quite fast...... any ideas what this was about?"

The Phantom replies:

Sounds like a good old fashioned Sarf-East London funeral to me. There are a couple of undertakers who still keep all that clobber for people who like that kind of thing. I tend to think 'gangsters' when I see them, though I'm sure that ordinary folk do it too. It's not so long ago that saving up for a grand funeral was a major deal, and there are still people who set a lot of store by it. There will no doubt be a serious knees-up later in a traditional English pub with all the whelks and jellied eels you can eat, guv. Not my bag - but each to his own. We all have our own way of dealing with death.

The Gift, Not The Giver...

Dave from Winnipeg has a fabulous question about General Wolfe's statue that must win the prize for specificity. I have absolutely no answer to this, but something tells me that one of you might...

Dave asks:

"Concerning the statue of General Wolfe. I believe the inscription on the plinth (describing the gift of the statue to Britain - TGP) was changed from "people of Quebec" to "people of Canada" sometime in the last twenty years."

Dave's trying to find an old photo taken from the rear that would bear this out. If any of you fancy shuffling through a few shoeboxes of old pics, he'd be mighty grateful.

While we're on the subject, I have always been slightly puzzled as to why the people of Quebec - or Canada - would want to give a statue of the man who whooped 'em 200 years ago to the country that invaded them. Maybe someone could enlighten me on that one, too...

Thai Massage

A real toughie here. Rico asks:

"I have scoured the internet but can't find any practitioners doing traditional Thai massage in the Greenwich area. Greenwich Natural Health Centre on Royal Hill seem the most likely place, but they do not appear to offer Thai masage, which is the particular kind I am after. Do you know of anywhere?"

The Phantom has burned shoe leather on this one.

I confess I had to actually ask what made a Thai massage any different from other sorts of massage (getting a most interesting - and graphic - response from one friend - actions, everything...) Sounds like something worth trying at least once, but I can't see you managing to do it round here. I have been to all the usual alternative therapy-type suspects I could think of and drawn a blank. I've asked around, looked in complimentary-healthy-style leaflets and done an internet trawl. I've found several people saying they'd like to try one - but no one who actually does it. Maybe, just maybe, one of you knows.

In the meanwhile, I apologise in advance for whatever ads Google comes up with down the side of this post...

Vanishing Bookstalls and Non-existent Literary Reviews...

Kirsty asks a curious question:

"Last summer I was shopping at the outdoor market. Just past the furniture shop and opposite Café Rouge, there’s a rather ugly building, and there are stalls all the way round it at the weekend, all book stalls at the front. As you look at the building from the road, on the right hand side there’s a fairly narrow space, and there was a book stall in there selling mostly philosophy, history, classics and poetry.

I bought two boxes of books and had a long chat with the stallholder, who told me that a) he was starting a poetry/lit review magazine/society and asked if I’d contribute something and b) he was moving to an inside stall upstairs in that building. I was away from London for much of last summer so couldn’t do anything, but since returning I have tried to find the guy and his stall with no luck.

How do you get upstairs in that building? The only door I could find that opened belonged to a vintage clothes stall and the girl I spoke to couldn’t help. I have been back several times and the guy has vanished. I’d love to know whether he got his magazine/society off the ground (and whether he’s still interested in contributions) and also I want to find his book stall – he had a superb collection."

The Phantom Replies:

I am assuming you're talking about Stockwell Street market and the building is either the ex-petrol station or the warehouses behind. I confess I only know of a vintage clothing shop upstairs in the old petrol station and a sort of curiosity-shop upstairs in the other store (long-term readers may be familiar with the strange character outside that particular place...)

I don't know the specific chap you're talking about; Literary reviews, like book stalls, come and go. I met a girl recently though, who was starting up a literary magazine in Greenwich - for the life of me I can't remember its name (I think it's something to do with the university) and I know that when I met her, a few months ago she was looking for submissions.

If your literary bent is towards London and a creepy-alternative view of her, you might try the underground magazine One Eye Grey - "A Penny Dreadful for the 21st Century." I've read several of them since they started a couple of years ago. Quality ranges from the superb to the frankly rather poor, but it's always an interesting read (except when they venture out of the Capitol down to Brighton, pah) and when it's good it's very very good. I always have huge admiration for anyone running a literary magazine - seems like a hiding for nothing to me, which is why I try to support them when I can. Let us know if you get anything published, won't you, Kirsty...

New Building Works...

Benedict has been noticing a load of new building - he points out that the next phase of the Peninsula works has been given the go-ahead - no surprise there - but has also pointed out another, more mysterious build...

"Next to Greenwich mainline station down the lovely named Prince of Orange Lane behind the Cigar Warehouse there seems to be some construction work starting and being the nosey bugger I am was wondering if you knew anything about it. I am now overlooked by a load of plant and double decker blue shipping containers.

As much as a fan I am of the inventiveness of container living, NO! Not in my back yard son! I cant find any permissions granted on the council website ( but it just lists stuff chronologically, ) I gave up after going back just three months ( a mere 1000 or so entrys) I am hoping you and your super sleuthing abilities will save me a trip to the fantasticly fun, yawn, planning office."

The Phantom is, sadly, similarly time-strapped just now so a trip to the planning offices is a bit out for me too. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I should be a bit less pressed but for now - does anyone have any clues here? BTW The Prince of Orange Road almost certainly comes from the original moniker of the pub now the naffly-named Beluccis. Such is Progress.

Window Cleaners

Lorna asks:

"Any chance that you, or your readers might know of a good window cleaner? All the ones I can find are commercial and I just don't fancy climbing a ladder to do mine!"

The Phantom admits - once again I am embarrassed at my lack of knowledge on this subject - mine's the house with filthy windows. Any ideas?

Patisseries/Bakeries in Greenwich

Meike asks:

I wondered if you happened to know any good bakery / patisserie in Greenwich? We're looking for something French if possible, similar to Paul's.

The Phantom replies:

To my great sadness no, I don't. Not in Greenwich. A couple of places - the fishmonger, the cheesemonger, the deli - sell the odd loaf of bread, there is a stall on the market and Buenos Aires up Royal Hill sells slices of cake and sweet little natas tarts. But there's no dedicated patisserie/bakery I know of; one of the more glaring gaps in the Greenwich Pantheon of shops. There is a (literal) bakery around the back of the Power Station - but it only makes bread - as far as I know there is no retail outlet.

People looking for business ideas, take note.

Indeed, they should take note of Blackheath, which has not one, but two fabulous patisserie/bakeries, almost next door to each other. Of the two, the exquisite Hand Made Foods I tend to think of as more of a deli than Boulangerie Jade, which is, I suspect, exactly what you're looking for. Melting cakes, wonderful bread, rolls and croissants and good coffee are just the start of it. Ok - so it's a bus ride or a brisk walk across the heath - but it should just mean you have even more room for the lovely gooey goodies purveyed.

I am not always jealous of Blackheath. In fact, I'm not usually jealous of Blackheath. But I do envy them their baked goods. Wonderful.

Computer Engineers

Abi asks:

Despite being vaguely I.T. literate I can't get my wireless router to work in my flat. Is there anyone locally who provides computer help?

The Phantom Replies:

The only one I know of is Greenwich Communication Centre on Trafalgar Road. I only used them once and that was a long time ago, but they were certainly able to help on that occasion. But maybe other people have other suggestions?

Replacing London's Victorian Water Pipes...?

Badger asks:

Are you aware of the ongoing saga of the replacement pipe operation in Annandale Road.

We were informed that the Victorian water pipes were to be replaced and the operation would take 6 weeks starting Jan 2007 (Nearly a year and a quarter ago).

Well the original works did start then and actually continued for around SEVEN months. Once the workmen cleared off in July all was good until around September when a sewer pumping wagon started appearing at Midnight and sluishing out the drains (causing a little disruption with it's attendant noise, smell and flashing lights). Apparently the sewers were backing up into the houses on the odd numbered side of the street.

This continued until a work crew set up camp in November for a repair job on the main sewer which had somehow got concrete poured down it by the water pipe replacement operation (this is what I was told from the workmen). This was due to take around a week but actually took us into January and this time the road actually had to be closed as they dug a huge pit in the middle of the road.

Now they've appeared again early this month and are digging trenches down the sides of the road replicating the original operation over a year ago. Rumour has it that the pipes were not dug in at the specified depth and this therefore has to be corrected.

Six week operation still not completed inside 60 weeks !! Do any other corrsepondents know what is going on ?? Can the authorities enlighten us and if it takes this long for one street what chance for the rest of London which I believe is the extent of the whole operation ??

The Phantom wearily replies:

Sadly I don't think you're alone here, Badger. It seems that all over Greenwich (and, indeed, London) roads are dug up, filled in, re-dug, re-filled. Take Woolwich Road. I wonder which bright spark thought it was a good idea to excavate in late March 2007, only to have to fill it in again, having done bugger-all, for the Marathon in April. By the time they got round to digging it up again it was time for the Tour de France and the whole lot got filled in again. I thought they actually had it nailed when they did it again in about September - but a couple of weeks ago it was all fenced off and dug up around the corner - where Combedale and Kemsing roads are - and where all the traffic comes round the corner. And yes. Poor old Annandale Road has copped it yet again too. I'm so used to seeing those wire mesh panels somewhere (before the roads it was the SElectIOn (a name devised by a very weary PR person...) being built) that it will seem quite bare when the road's actually clear again.

Maybe the job is so big that they're just not training people properly to do it right the first time. I went to a lecture at the Barrier last year where Thames Water were boasting that they were ahead of schedule - thye'd counted on finishing all of London by 2010. Maybe they had actually factored-in the number of times they'd have to return to 'finished' projects so they could look good last year when they were getting all that bad press...

I know it's a big job and it has to be done (though I did notice that they're using the 'old Victorian waterpipes' excuse for every patch-job they're doing - in places that are clearly no older than mid 20th Century - some work in Charlton for example where the pipes cannot possibly be 19th Century is proudly annoucing that the 'Victorian' pipes are being replaced...) but if they'd just get it right the first time, it would be better for everyone.

Ooh. I do like coming back and having a good moan.

Water Polo

Alick rightly points out that sport is not among The Phantom's favourite activities:

I know it's a bit niche and probably not your thing (having read and enjoyed your blog for a while and searched for "sport" on it ;) ), but do you or your readers know of any water polo teams based near to Greenwich? I'm aware of teams that train in Waterloo, Croydon, and Sevenoaks, but was hoping to find one closer to home than that.

So. I've done a spot of research and Deptford's Wavelengths pool claims to do water polo, though I can't find anything at all about it. I know that there are quite a few of you that do sporty-type stuff - can anyone help out Alick?

Bear Fighting on Blackheath?

Rebecca says:

I am an American who is living in Blackheath Standard and I love walking down to Greenwich on Sat and Sunday afternoons. My question is this, I have been told that the green dug out areas before you get to Blackheath Green in front of the Blackheath entrance to Greenwich Park were originally dug by Elisabeth I to hold bear fights in and I was wondering if you knew if that was true or not?

Hmmm. The Phantom is unconvinced.

I've heard many tales about the bumps and dips that cover Blackheath but never that one before. Blackheath is honeycombed with holes and is really quite unstable. There have been collapses throughout history - some bigger than others - and the last one was very recent indeed - 2002, when the A2 disappeared into a big old chalk pit. I intend to get onto Black (heath) Holes soon, but for now, if there was a bear pit there, I can't think that it would have been anything other than temporary - perhaps for one of the fairs that were held there. Neil Rhind doesn't appear to mention it in his seminal work The Heath - though I could have missed it, I guess.

It could even be a dried-up pond, if it's right next to the gate. I think there was more than one there.

More research needed, I think, but for now I'm not buying that there was a bear pit there.

Cigar Warehouse

Benedict (who sent the above) asks:

Does the phantom know anything about the Cigar Warehouse near the station, at the junction of The High Road and South Street?

The Phantom replies:

In a word, no, but I'd like to. Whenever I walk past that little row of shops I look up and wonder. I guess it says it all on the wall - but as yet I know nothing about it. I wonder if anyone else does..?

Nelson's Jacket

Katrina asks:

Where is Nelson’s Jacket? I’m doing the Knowledge -it's a test question. Answer given 'Park Row SE10' – but where?

The Phantom replies:

Unless this is some obscure naval term, I can only assume that the question refers to the jacket Admiral Lord Nelson was wearing when he was fatally wounded at the Battle of Trafalgar. It's in the National Maritime Museum, though why that's given as Park Row, I'm not quite sure - I always assumed the address was in Romney Road. The side entrance is in Park Row - maybe that's where cabbies have to do the drop-off.

The jacket was sent to Lady Hamilton after Nelson's death, and despite members of the family wanting it back, a letter found in the pocket meant that she got to keep it. Actually, she ended up on the skids and gave the jacket to a certain Joshua Smith to clear a debt just before her death. Prince Albert bought it from Smith's widow for the staggering sum of £150 and gave it to Greenwich Hospital.

It's a fascinating garment - not least because it's so very tiny. When we think of great men of history, somehow we tend to think of physical giants, but Nelson was really only average for his day - which is generally smaller than we are. It's dark blue with gold epaulettes, dainty and has a brown stain in the left shoulder where the bullet went right through it.

Interestingly, I read an article on the ethics of conservation recently that focused on those stains. Apparently, after a while, the dried blood started to fade, so Victorian museum curators decided to sex them up a bit with some red paint. The ethical question is "when does the history of an object end?" Basically that boils down to whether or not the Victorian curator's painty daubs are also part of the garment's history now and whether they should be stripped away by a conservator or kept as a monument to historial 'preservation.'

Any more Knowledge teasers on this bright and breezy Friday afternoon?

Trinity Hospital

Paul asks

What's happening to Trinity Hospital?

I know there were redeveloping the back of the hospital, but yesterday we walked past the main (front) entrance, it looked dilapidated: piles of leaves blown up against the front door and gate, the pathway to the front door (through which you could often see that gorgeous internal courtyard) all sad and neglected, with two-foot high weeds growing in-between the kerbstones.

Do we know what's happening? Even if they've changed the main entrance to the back, why are they allowing this gorgeous facade to become so neglected?

The Phantom replies:

I noticed this the other day when I was taking my American friends for a lightning tour of Greenwich's highlights and those leaves made it quite clear that the door hadn't been opened since Autumn. I confess I'm not really worried yet though. If memory serves, they never open that door during the winter months. Presumably it's such a wind tunnel that, given the choice between that and a side door or the back entrance, they can hardly be blamed for denying us a lovely view. It was a shame for my visitors as the 'secret' glimpse through the railings is one of the loveliest sights in Greenwich, but I'm not going to panic until those leaves are still there in the Spring.

While we're on the subject though, I guess now is as good as any to take a closer look at this dear little almshouse. Of course Greenwich is hardly short of them - we have at least four - but this has to be the prettiest.

It was founded, despite the date on the front (1616) in 1613 by Henry Howard, Earl of Northampton, and comes with a curious caveat. On the outside, by the door that's presently covered in leaves, a sign says that it is home to "21 retired gentlemen of Greenwich." So far so good. But not completely accurate. Only 12 of the "decayed" pensioners, "become poor by casual means and not through his own dissolute life" were to be from the local area. Eight more decrepits (the other one must have been added at a later date) were to come from Shottesham in Norfolk - a left-field concept at the very least.

If the last decayed gentleman in Shottesham happened to be a "common beggar, drunkard, whorehunter, haunter of taverns or alehouses" or if he was an "unclean person infected with any foul disease, blind or so impotent as he is not able;" even worse if he were "an idiot" or unable to say the Lord's Prayer, the Ten Commandments and the Creed "without book," he was out. But that still didn't mean to say that any more Greenwich decayed gentlemen got a look in. The net was just widened to include the Norfolk village next door, Bungay.

Simple enough reason - it was Howard's birthplace. It was his party and he decided who was invited...

The bit you can see from the river walk (the cute bit) isn't as old as it looks - it was rebuilt in 1812 in Strawberry Hill Gothique style. And very gorgeous it is too. But if you're looking for old, you're going to have to hope they open that centre gate in the summer, where the 17th Century Courtyard is just lovely. It's a cloister-style, with an ancient wisteria growing around the columns. In the middle is a twinkling fountain and usually some geraniums dotted around. Very Mediterranean, but somehow also very British. The pic's a bit dark - click on it to make it a bit sharper.

Under the cloisters are some wonderful old notices telling "The Poor Men" what they were expected to do - and, of course, what they were not expected to do. Carousing around town was definitely OUT. Presumably the retired inhabitants are allowed out after 6.00pm nowadays.

Until 1946, everyone had to wear a fancy uniform - they just wear it for special occasions now, mainly for the annual Visitation from the Mercers Company who took over running the hospital in 1621. The gardens at the back are ancient and leafy, though only the bit closest to the buildings has (very splendid) borders - the rest is very old trees, including a mulberry (James I again, with his bloomin' silly English Silk Trade idea) and a medlar.

They used to be much more extensive though. The thoughts of the pensioners when their principal source of income, their market garden and orchard, was grubbed up to make room for the gigantic power station 100 years ago are unrecorded, perhaps because they would violate at least one of the hospital's myriad regulations...


I visited on one of their special open-house days - they have fund-raising events from time to time - and I had a chat with some of the pensioners. (They don't include decayed Norfolk people any more - they got their own Trinity Almshouse in Victorian times - a Phantom day-out for the future, perhaps...)

It was just before the new buildings at the end of the garden had been started and they were excited. The current rooms were small, dark, cramped and damp, however picturesque they were on the outside. The new build (on land that was, frankly, the compost heap) meant that the same number of people could have a more comfortable retirement. I think they've done pretty well with the new build, but I haven't seen inside.

You know what, I won't talk about the chapel inside today. It warrants a post of its own.

Sheepish Phantom

This has to be the oddest Ask The Phantom I've had so far...

Mark asks:

My girl is absolutely mad about sheep. Cotswold sheep, in specific. Unfortunately she is stuck over in the states in a completely sheepless area. So, for her birthday which is coming up in early April, I thought I would go and try and collect images of her obsession for a sheep-focussed birthday love-letter. (My word, that does sound problematic...)

Now, I have heard rumours of some unknown species of sheep being kept in a park somewhere in or near Greenwich and I'm aware that there's an urban farm in Mudchute just across the Thames... but would you, or any of your readers, happen to know of more locations I might find sheep in the general area? Cotswolds are the preferred breed, but I'll take any I can find. Unfortunately I am unable to get myself over to the Cotswolds, the obvious place to search, and am otherwise limited to the general London area, Greenwich being the one in which I live and work.

Unfortunately other people's pictures of sheep don't help, it's just... not going to be the same unless I go out and photograph the sheep myself!

The Phantom replies:

Woodlands Farm Trust has four varieties of sheep - Romney, Suffolk, Texel and Lleyn. Sadly no Cotswold baa-lambs there, but a bit further up the Thames than Lechlade...

At Maryon Wilson Park in Charlton you can actually 'adopt' a sheep for your girl. They don't mention varieties, but they all have names - like poor Mylo who is missing an ear after being attacked by a dog a couple of years back when vandals smashed up the enclosure.

There's another City Farm - Surrey Docks Farm - along the Thames Path around Bermondsey. It doesn't appear to have a website.

You know, I'm sure I've seen photos by none other than our very own Benedict that included sheep. Of course I might have been hallucinating. It doesn't sound very likely, I know, but...Benedict? I know you're more into toads these days - but can you help a young couple?

General Change...

David's getting into a bit of a lather about the Wimpy Bar - and its surroundings.

is it true it is about to close and become a bloody chicken shop oh please say no and the video shop a pond shop oh please say no all the shops empty from the college what si happening to greenwich and could you please tell me what is going on where burger king was major works therealso the state of the st alfeges park the fences torn down the rubbish it s a mess.

Phew. The Phantom doesn't really know what to say except, perhaps, suggesting a cup of tea and a sit down before reading on...

I don't know about the Wimpy Bar per se. It wouldn't surprise me to see it go - it must be one of the few left standing...

It's certainly a marvellous throwback to the 1970s - when, standing proud in its Britishness, it may have served burgers - but you were never allowed to let it go to your head. You'd be forced to remember you were British, for God's sake. and you had some values... Waitress service - and you'll eat that burger with a knife and fork, young Phantom. And don't forget to ask permission before you leave the table...

I really don't know what's happening with that funny little shopping centre - it's getting sadder and sadder looking - we've been discussing it recently. I have indeed heard that the ex-video store will be a pound shop, but maybe better a pound shop than a dead shop? Personally, I'd like to see the whole lot flattened and rebuilt with something a bit less brutalist - they could still keep the Somerfield and the flats and the funny little shops - just in something that doesn't look so depressing. I was reading about the mass demolition of old places in the 70s last night - presumably that nasty shopping centre was one of the proud results.

While I may have issues with some of the things the Greenwich Society do these days, without them and their efforts in the 1970s, the whole of Greenwich would have looked like that. They prevented a four-lane motorway from driving straight through the Queen's House and developments like that monstrous shopping centre from replacing the market. And for that I doff my spectral cap.

I was rather surprised to find St Alfege's cemetery chained and locked yesterday - I don't know what's going on there. Anyone know how long it's been like that?

And David's question - what's happening to Greenwich?

I suspect Greenwich is happening to Greenwich.

I don't know. I got up all happy and cheery this sunny Tuesday morning and now on a right downer. Cheer me up with something good, eh, folks...

:-(

Greenwich Cablevision

Paul asks:

I found an intriguing reference last night in a book called "I Never Knew that About London" by Christopher Winn to the fact (apparently) that Greenwich was the subject of the first pay TV channel, Greenwich Cablevision. Apparently it began broadcasting from a studio in Plumstead on 3 July 1972 and its first programme was about everday life in Greenwich at the time. I would love to see the programme. Ever heard of it? Seen it? Any ideas on sourcing it? If not, I may go to Mr Winn's publishers to ask.

The Phantom is flummoxed.

Blimey - I'd never even heard of it. But it sounds intriguing indeed. Wow - I'd like to see that too.

I would say your best bet for a first-stop would be the Heritage Centre or the Borough Museum at Plumstead - they may have it - though of course it could be on some long-lost tape format and unwatchable now. Your enquiry might prompt them to digitise it while it's still available (though actually still in copyright so there might be some iffy implications.) Sadly I don't think there's a TV equivalent of the British Library - where you have to legally deposit a copy of broadcast material.

Perhaps the BFI could help though?

Do keep me posted on this intriguing Greenwich first...

Natural Wedding Venues

Is it just me or does that title just sound ever-so slightly racy?
But back to the question...

Philippa asks:

My fiancee and I are getting married on the 5th July. We're having our reception at the new site of the Hangar Arts Trust - a giant circus warehouse in Woolwich. To contrast with this, I really want to have a ceremony (more of a blessing and readings than anything legal due to location) somewhere beautiful and natural, like a wood or a garden. I wondered whether you might have any suggestions as to places we could hire or look at?

The Phantom replies:

Congratualtions, Philippa! I'm intrigued about the Hangar Arts Place - I haven't come across it before. I agree that having a contrast is a good idea. Not least because most of the really wild places will be free.

There's always the ancient Oxleas Wood - containing many possible sites within - worth finding a place beforehand and getting someone to meet your guests and lead them there rather than playing hunt-the-venue. Alternatively, if it's a really relaxed affair, you could actually make it a treasure hunt, leaving clues among the bushes and under stones. Just be prepared for people to arrive in dribs and drabs.

The garden at the Royal Observatory is popular - you may be able to hire it - though presumably there will be rather a lot of onlookers.

Talking of onlookers, some friends of mine who are pagans had a handfasting at the stone circle in Hilly Fields Park in Brockley. Since it was a Saturday afternoon in summer, the dress code was thankfully not "skyclad" (phew) but there was still plenty for saucer-eyed small boys on bicycles to enjoy.

There's always the little gorse-filled hollow at the top of Maze Hill - what the whole of Blackheath must have looked like once. There is the occasional burnt-out car there, but mostly it'svery peaceful, quiet and reasonably private.

How about at the foot of Severndroog Castle? Or among the ruins of Lesnes Abbey? In exchange for cash, you might be able to persuade the residents of Trinity Hospital along the Thames Path to let you use their back garden. I don't know. But The Fan Museum's garden is definitely available for hire, and of course, there's an indoors if it rains.

Another indoor place that you might like to look at would be the Winter Gardens at Avery Hill Park in Eltham. Or if you really want to push the boat out, there's always Eltham Palace. It gets very booked up, but Saturdays are reserved for weddings. The gorgeous palace is fabulous and the gardens are also great, but if you want "natural," cross the little wooden bridge and wander into the less heavily tended areas. It's administered by English Heritage, who also hire out Rangers House at extortionate rates.

Charlton House is cheaper (and though not quite as glamorous, still a lovely place. The grounds, if extensive aren't that exciting however.) Hall Place is currently under restoration (though the gardens are eye-popping - the turf maze would have been fun) as is Woodlands House in Westcombe Park (the gardens are nicely shady) but Danson House will be open. The grounds are only so-so but the house is good.

I am sure people will have some more suggestions...

Photography Club/Darkroom

Phil asks:

I was wondering if you knew of any local photography clubs that might (quite literally) offer 'development opportunities'?

My wife is a keen photographer but would like to develop her own photos (still in the analogue age!) using a darkroom/enlarger/liquids etc - are there any either in Greenwich or possibly slightly further afield (I would have thought Goldsmiths would have some facilities but I doubt if they're available for use by the public)?

The Phantom replies:

You know, Phil, only in the last week have I seen a local course charmingly described as "analogue photography," but I can't for the life of me remember where. In the meanwhile, though, Greenwich Community College's Greenwich Park site does a couple of courses in traditional photography and printing.

It would be worth talking to the folks at Viewfinder Gallery - they don't, I believe, do courses themselves, but I bet they know of people who do.

Aperture is the Woolwich Photographic Club - founded in 1892, and appears to be very active.

I know there are a lot of photographers who drop by this blog - maybe they can help you further...

A Good Place to Re-locate?

Julia asks:

I currently reside in the U.S. My family will relocate to the UK in the summer and have found GMV as one of our options. I have two small children 3 and 5 years of age. Since my husband will be working in central London, this seemed like an option since school, transportation, and shopping is within walking distance? Would we need a car?

After calling the school in Millennium I was told that there may not be space for my children for the September term. Is there any other areas in Greenwich you could recommend that is near some good primary and nursery care? And besides that would you say it would be a good place to raise small children? Any comments or recommendations regarding my questions or perhaps even other areas that may work for my family would be much appreciated.

The Phantom replies:

Welcome (perhaps) to Greenwich!

Would you need a car. Hmm. I'd say probably not. GMV is stuck out on a limb a bit, but it's on many bus routes and about a ten minute walk to North Greenwich Tube Jubilee Line. It's about a ten minute walk to the nearest supermarket too (there are two within easy walking distance from GMV - at one there's an electrical store and a big DIY shed as well as Sainsburys; over at the ASDA (another supermarket) there's a TK Max, Boots the Chemist, some clothing stores, an HMV, Office World. pet superstore and a stationers.)

You'd have a pretty sad life if you just stuck to those places though - they're not all that nice, just useful. There are buses to Blackheath (a lovely little village, with a Farmers Market on a Sunday and lots of nice eateries, and to Greenwich which - well - you know all about Greenwich, I'm sure. If not, a trawl through this blog should help there...

I heard there's a car sharing scheme on the peninusla but I don't know anything about it.

The best primary school in the area is Halstow Road School, or so my next door neighbour tells me (people with young families may disagree with me there, of course.) I'm sure I read somewhere that it's in the top 100 in Britain, I believe, but even if I have that wrong, competition is fierce. Some people move into the catchment area just to get their children into the school. It's about a ten-fifteen minute walk from GMV, but check to see if you would 'count' if you lived there. Houses in the Halstow Road catchment area are a bit more expensive than GMV, but they tend to have gardens and more space. Obviously that area is FULL of young families.

There is a Steiner School in Westcombe Park, just up the hill from East Greenwich (Westcombe Park or Maze Hill railway stations) and I've heard good things about the General Wolfe School in West Greenwich, (loads of stations, LR and buses) though the housing stock tends to be much more expensive (and very dinky indeed...) You will find a lot of young families there too.

Families are growing in GMV, but because the housing units tend to be smaller, there is less room for spreading out. It's reasonably safe though, and the eco park, views of the river and comparitively large amounts of green open spaces mean there's somewhere to play.

Is it a good area to bring up children? I'll have to open that one up to the floor!

Greenwich since 2000

Joseph asks:

I am in Year three at St Josephs primary school, Greenwich and i have been asked to do a project on how Greenwich has changed.I went on the tourist office walk with my mum today.We'll also be going to the Heritage centre next week, but I wondered if you could help me. I was born in 2000, and would like to know about any changes since then to the present day. I have a brilliant picture of lovell wharf coming down.

The Phantom replies:

You know Joseph, in the years just before 2000 and from then onwards, Greenwich has probably seen as much sudden change as it would have done around the 18th Century (when Greenwich Hospital was built) the 1830s, (when the centre of Greenwich was redeveloped) the turn of the 20th century (massive amounts of Victorian expansion) and World War II (lots of bombings...)

Much of this latest change has to do with the coming of new forms of transport to Greenwich. Although we had the railway since 1836 and river travel has been with us since - well, forever, really, Greenwich was always comparatively cut-off from the rest of London until we got the Docklands Light Railway and The Jubilee Line, connecting us to the underground network.

This has brought a huge amount of new people into the area, because they can commute to The City - and, of course, to the newly-built Canary Wharf - once the docks of London, now a mainly service-sector area. There's a vibrancy -not least because of the numer of young people here - from the University and Trinity Music College, which came when the Navy moved out of the Old Royal Navla College and it was opened up to the public as a museum.

Greenwich's industrial life has diminished as the 'cleaning-up' has spread. The peninsula, where once a gigantic gas works filled the area, is now 'cleaned up' and awaiting more development, industry being confined to the west side by the river (if you want to see some of Greenwich's industrial world, take a walk along The Thames Path) and driven further out - to Charlton, Woolwich and beyond.

2000, of course, was the 'big' year for Greenwich - the ill-fated Millennium Dome was opened - and shut again - it's only recently been reopened, and is, at last, a success.

In the town centre, Greenwich is changing too. As more people come, so do companies with cash. Where there used to be a lot of independent retailers, chain stores are taking over. Not everyone sees this as a bad thing - it is, at least, proof that Greenwich is getting richer. But I mourn for the quirky, individual shops and services that are being forced to close through higher rents.

So what else is good? Well - the Picturehouse, reopened, is a joy, and the spruced-up museums and town centre are nice. But it's up to us to make sure that Greenwich gets better rather than worse. We cannot leave it to other people - or worse still, big businesses - to decide on our fate...

I'm not sure that's what you asked. Sorry - I got a bit carried away there...

Bathroom Companies

Peaches asks:

Does anyone know of a good local bathroom design company? We've had a few astronomical quotes and are looking for something a bit more reasonable…..

The Phantom replies:

I have often found that the real money goes on the 'design' and 'project management' parts of the process in pretty much every area of redecoration. If you're prepared to get out a piece of paper and a pencil, do a few calculations, a little bit of research and take on talking and organising individual tradespeople, you can do it for a fraction of the cost of a company that takes on the entire 'project.'

It's what I generally do - it's just a case of making lists, getting recommendations for individual specialists - plasterers, plumbers, tilers etc and making careful arrangements. The only drawback I've found is that it tends to take a little longer (a lot longer if you're very unlucky) as you have to book workmen in advance and if one lets you down, the whole chain collapses (that is what you pay a project manager for - to be a rottweiler on your behalf.) But if you can afford the time, the upside is that the money you save on administrators you can plough into the chinaware, so the whole thing looks better.

One place that I found good for discount bathroom-ware is JEM, in the Angerstein trading park, on the peninsula. (squeezed in between See Woo and what used to be the quad-bike shop under the flyover. The rest of it seems to be catering supplies and bucket shops.) Don't expect obsequious servitude - it's a showroom - you wander round and ask questions and that's it. But the prices are good and the range not bad at all. There always used to be an ad in the local paper saying if you asked for various blokes (I can't remember, but try John, Dave, Bill - something generic like that) you'd get a further discount.

Water-loo by Hither Green Station isn't bad either. I ended up buying my bathroom-ware at Raymac in Welling; sadly if you really want to get something cheap, leg-work is a necessary part of the gig. There are about three discount tile-sheds in close proximity along the road that goes to ASDA in Charlton, and, first left off that road, going from towards Charlton from the Peninsula, there is a glass company that cuts all kinds of glass and mirrors to size. There's also a posh bathroom fittings shop, H2O in Charlton Road.

I'm afraid I can't help you with all-in companies. There are dozens of them around - just look in the free magazines - maybe someone can recommend somewhere...

The Old Sportsman Ground

Darth asks:

I've been looking for the site of the old Sportsman Ground on maps of Greenwich, but I can't find anything that places an old pig farm anywhere near Manor Ground or Plumstead Common. I think it's under HMP Belmarsh now; does anyone know if that's true?

The Phantom replies:

You're touching two topics I'm extremely hazy about there, Darth - Sport and Plumstead - I know nothing about the first and practically nothing about the second. But there are people who can help you here, I'm sure. ScaredofChives? Charlton Average? Paging Inspector Sands...

Cave in the Grounds of Woodlands House?

AS asks:

Having studied old maps of the area, I see that there was a cave in the grounds of the old nunnery in Mycenae Road, which is now Woodlands House. I wonder if this cave is well known, whether it is man made or a natural phenomenum. I expect it is blocked up now. I would be very grateful if anyone knows anything about this, and any history behind it.

The Phantom replies:

I don't know of any caves there - though Greenwich being Greenwich, the whole area is riddled with holes and passageways, and there could be one.

What I suspect it's more likely to be though, is the remains of an old ice house.

Ice houses were popular in the days before refrigeration and were usually situated in the darkest, dankest area of a house's grounds, to try to keep them cool. They were generally giant brick-lined pits often several metres deep, with a roof that was then often covered with a mound of soil, and shaded by trees, though some were disguised as little summerhouses or quaint cottages.

What happened was that during the winter ice was harvested from local ponds and shipped back by horse and cart to the ice house, where it was packed really solidly until, ideally, it was full. The contents were then used throughout the summer for keeping food chilled and making drinks and desserts. It wasn't always of the purest possible quality...

Nearly all major estates had an ice house, and Iunderstand that Woodlands was no exception. If it was covered with a mound of earth, it may well look like a cave, especially if the trees have grown up around it. Presumably it would have been abandoned at some point and small children (and Phantoms) happening upon it in the undergrowth could well have fantasised it was a secret chamber - which of course, in some respects by that time it would have been.

I have no idea if it still exists or even whether it was in the bit that is still green at Woodlands(the Angerstein estate stretched down as far as the river) but it would make sense for an ice house not to be situated too far away from the kitchen. I am sure that if it is still there it will be well blocked up as by their very nature ice houses have very deep shafts and are very dark indeed - a potentially lethal combination...

Maybe someone has some more information? Am I barking up anywhere near the right tree?

Aircraft

Mark asks:

Have planes been rerouted over Greenwich? I can't recall so much traffic and noise.

The Phantom replies:

I don't know about any rerouting of aeroplanes, but a friend of mine who flys helicopters tells me that this area is where they are held in a holding pattern before they're allowed to fly over Central London, which is why we get so many helicopters, chinooks etc.

There could be a little more traffic due to that crash in Heathrow a week or so ago. One of the bays is, I believe, out of action, which means more circling for waiting aircraft.

Rock Acts at Borough Hall

Ellen asks:

I work for Greenwich Dance Agency which is based in the old town hall. I am currently trying to compile a brief history of all the artists who have performed here over the years, we have heard rumours that ‘The Who’, ‘Slade’ and ‘The Rolling Stones’ have all performed here at some point. However beyond the Rolling Stones we have had very little luck in finding any information on anything to do with this building, and I was wondering whether you knew of any place I could look to find information on the building and who has performed here.

The Phantom replies:

I've been wanting to review GDA for some time, but never manage to get to sign up for taster-type classes before they're full up. You must be doing something right to get full so quickly...

I would say your first stop would be the Borough Museum at 232 Plumstead High Street, London SE18, Plumstead (no website that I can find.) It's a trip from Central Greenwich but not a total pain in the arse and presumably you're super-fit for the shortish walk from the station. I'm not sure exactly where the council keeps its archives for social stuff like what went on at the Borough Hall, but I'm betting the people there would know. Old playbills, listings and ephemera may well be available, but not on show, so it's worth asking. People who work in these places tend to be very enthusiastic about projects like yours, so do involve them in your search.

If this throws up a blank, try the Heritage Centre at the Arsenal. Again it's a bit of a bloomin' faff to get to on public transport, but not a total headache, and again the folk there are very helpful.

Going slightly higher up the a-bit-too-much-like-hard-work list, there's a small possibility that the archives of the Theatre Museum will have something.

Depending on how keen you are to get this info together, there is another option, but now we really are talking pain-in-the-arse. The British Newspaper Library at Colindale is a right-royal day (or several week's) trip. Most of it's on microfiche, which you have to scroll through for hours on end (unless it's changed since I last went - perhaps they've put it all on computers now...) Even working out which newspapers you need will be a bit of a pain in the proverbial, although you can probably narrow down the search by collaborating with the museum guys and finding out which newspapers would have carried adverts, listings or reviews.

This could turn into a seriously good project - a labour of love - I'm not saying you'll get a best-selling book out of it, but you may well find that just making a list of famous acts who've played there isn't enough to slake your thirst for information. If it were me (and to be honest I'm glad it's not - I procrastinate far too much already) I'd be looking at including it in a more general history of the Borough Hall, including an overview of what goes on there today as well as finding out about some of the smaller acts, too, then doing an ask for people who attended events there, and getting some memories from them. For that I would suggest Blackheath's excellent Age Exchange Reminiscence Centre - they may also hold archives, but have a huge amount of material and access to interesting people with something to say.

Once you have some of the names, it's worth a call to the fan clubs to see if they have any memorabilia. You can try the managements too - if the band's big enough they may have an archive section (god, that really does make these old rock dinosaurs crusty, doesn't it...) but I'm betting that the fans will be far more entertaining - and passionate.

I think this could make a fascinating book. I'd buy it...

Wooden Furniture Shops

Natasha asks:

I wonder if you can help? About 3 years ago I bought some furniture from a great little shop on the Trafalgar Road, just round the corner from Greenwich Auction Rooms. I'm sure it was called No Ikea originally but the owner was telling me he had to change the name, for fear of being sued by Ikea and he then called it No Idea. It was a small shop with another unit round the corner which sold lots of wooden furniture, very similar to Next but half the price. I'm sure when I drove past the other day it had gone. Would you know?

The Phantom replies:

Always had a big cuddly old dog outside? I think you must mean Yew Wood Knot Believe It! which used to be where the Polish Deli is now (I have vague recollections of No Idea too...) I always thought they missed another appalling tree-pun (Yew Wood Knot Be-leaf It would have done the trick.) I don't know where they've gone to, if at all, but if it's mirrors you're after, try the mirror shop on Woolwich Road just the Charlton side of the flyover. For wooden furniture. Hmm - cheap stuff, I'd say the auction itself. Stewart John Antiques do repros at more expensive rates. Or how about the furniture shop on the side of Stockwell St market? A bit more ethnic-y but certainly worth a poke around.

If you're after office-type furniture do give Greenworks a go - it's all second-hand, recovered from office-moves and redecorations and some of it's a bit scruffy, but a lot of it's hardly or sometimes never been used - they have over-orders, one-year old stuff and sometimes things like a job lot of chairs that were not quite the right shade for the interior designer's whim, so they've come, still wrapped in their original plastic, to Greenworks instead of landfill, which is where, amazingly, they used to end up.

Any of you folk got any local suggestions for alternatives to wooden IKEA stuff? BTW has anyone else noticed that IKEA has really gone downhill recently - the prices are the same but everything is just that little bit thinner/wobblier/crappier. Local alternatives are always welcome...