<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Just Where Do We Stand?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/</link>
	<description>An Intimate Guide to Life in Greenwich</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 22:59:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: capability bowes</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104054</link>
		<dc:creator>capability bowes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2012 08:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104054</guid>
		<description>My name is not Capability Brown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My name is not Capability Brown.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104038</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 20:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104038</guid>
		<description>As I sat in the upper stands in the Park tonight I wondered if closing the Park off to the Public periodically isn&#039;t actually such a bad idea. Especially in August when the greatest heat and water stress is upon us, and the largest numbers of people trampling the acid grasslands are present.  The grass on the slope below The Observatory is the healthiest I&#039;ve ever seen it.  It&#039;s kind of like a farmer letting a field have a fallow year. Closing it off every August gets my vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I sat in the upper stands in the Park tonight I wondered if closing the Park off to the Public periodically isn&#8217;t actually such a bad idea. Especially in August when the greatest heat and water stress is upon us, and the largest numbers of people trampling the acid grasslands are present.  The grass on the slope below The Observatory is the healthiest I&#8217;ve ever seen it.  It&#8217;s kind of like a farmer letting a field have a fallow year. Closing it off every August gets my vote.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greenwich pensioner</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104034</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenwich pensioner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 19:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104034</guid>
		<description>To me, vandalism of any kind in the Park is intolerable.  It&#039;s a bit like vandalising a church or cemetery. 

LOCOG have deliberately caused widespread damage throughout the Park. This was legally sanctioned damage. And there are already calls to do it all again:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/save_greenwich_park/7759255252/in/set-72157629397205479/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, vandalism of any kind in the Park is intolerable.  It&#8217;s a bit like vandalising a church or cemetery. </p>
<p>LOCOG have deliberately caused widespread damage throughout the Park. This was legally sanctioned damage. And there are already calls to do it all again:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/save_greenwich_park/7759255252/in/set-72157629397205479/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/save_greenwich_park/7759255252/in/set-72157629397205479/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104033</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 18:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104033</guid>
		<description>If I understood it properly, the person who critiqued what I wrote before (Capability Bowes) essentially made the following point: that any public space or amenity can be disposed of at will by powers greater than us, and that we, who use this amenity and have come to love it as an integral part of our day-to-day lives, not only have no right to oppose this, but we do not even have a moral justification to complain about it. It is all available for the taking. We have to accept this and move on.

If we have no rights over the public realm, then presumably the only thing that we are justified in morally claiming rights over, is our private property. Our home or our garden if we have one. Yet the question is, whether when powers greater than us come to claim this too (such as by expropriation or compulsory purchase, etc.), this same person will argue that this too is fair enough, that it is normal, legal, the way of the world, and that the interests of the many (read: the rich and powerful) override those of the individual. Therefore we must expect to be swept aside like fluff, whenever someone in a position of power decides to build a wide road, a military facility, a runway, or maybe a sports centre or student accommodation, where we used to live.

If all that matters, then, is that whatever is done to us, is done legally, then indeed people like this ‘Greenwich pensioner&#039; here might be morally rebuked for mildly venting their powerless anger. However, where does this argument stop? Are we all to roll over whenever required to do so? In whose name? For whose benefit?

I should also add, that where people once frowned upon hooligans breaking the odd tree branch in the park, leaving their litter on the grass or starting barbecues on the Heath, because of the blight that they caused to such a public amenity, it will take generations before such behaviour can be frowned upon again as vandalism, when compared to what has been done to these two pristine green spaces by the powers that be. This, I submit, will be the main legacy of this Olympic folly in Greenwich: there is no vandalism, do as you please, if you don’t, then someone else will, 100 times worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I understood it properly, the person who critiqued what I wrote before (Capability Bowes) essentially made the following point: that any public space or amenity can be disposed of at will by powers greater than us, and that we, who use this amenity and have come to love it as an integral part of our day-to-day lives, not only have no right to oppose this, but we do not even have a moral justification to complain about it. It is all available for the taking. We have to accept this and move on.</p>
<p>If we have no rights over the public realm, then presumably the only thing that we are justified in morally claiming rights over, is our private property. Our home or our garden if we have one. Yet the question is, whether when powers greater than us come to claim this too (such as by expropriation or compulsory purchase, etc.), this same person will argue that this too is fair enough, that it is normal, legal, the way of the world, and that the interests of the many (read: the rich and powerful) override those of the individual. Therefore we must expect to be swept aside like fluff, whenever someone in a position of power decides to build a wide road, a military facility, a runway, or maybe a sports centre or student accommodation, where we used to live.</p>
<p>If all that matters, then, is that whatever is done to us, is done legally, then indeed people like this ‘Greenwich pensioner&#8217; here might be morally rebuked for mildly venting their powerless anger. However, where does this argument stop? Are we all to roll over whenever required to do so? In whose name? For whose benefit?</p>
<p>I should also add, that where people once frowned upon hooligans breaking the odd tree branch in the park, leaving their litter on the grass or starting barbecues on the Heath, because of the blight that they caused to such a public amenity, it will take generations before such behaviour can be frowned upon again as vandalism, when compared to what has been done to these two pristine green spaces by the powers that be. This, I submit, will be the main legacy of this Olympic folly in Greenwich: there is no vandalism, do as you please, if you don’t, then someone else will, 100 times worse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104028</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 13:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104028</guid>
		<description>And no horsies nor any Olympic types either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And no horsies nor any Olympic types either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104027</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 13:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104027</guid>
		<description>Sometimes you can walk through the park in the dark especially in winter - just before closing time. It&#039;s very special in the dark. There are no lamps for instance. And very few people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes you can walk through the park in the dark especially in winter &#8211; just before closing time. It&#8217;s very special in the dark. There are no lamps for instance. And very few people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greenwich pensioner</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104016</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenwich pensioner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 08:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104016</guid>
		<description>From an AOC Archaeology report, written in 2011:

&quot;In the 19th century, Greenwich Park underwent changes through encroachments and enclosures within the park, intensified public use, and other threats which prompted organised protests from local residents. &quot;

A letter published in the Illustrated London News, June 1844:

&quot;We are sorry to see it stated that there is pending an invasion of the sylvan shades of Greenwich, that most favourite resort of smoke-dried Londoners. An immense tank, to supply the hospital with water is to occupy with its unsightlyness one of the prettiest spots in the park, sweeping away the ancient barrows which have hitherto been carefully preserved as objects of antiquarian interest.&quot;

We must make sure that the Park is properly reinstated; that no expense is spared when repairing the terrible damage that has been done to it. We must fight to keep the Park public; that is, open to the public, free, all year round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From an AOC Archaeology report, written in 2011:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the 19th century, Greenwich Park underwent changes through encroachments and enclosures within the park, intensified public use, and other threats which prompted organised protests from local residents. &#8221;</p>
<p>A letter published in the Illustrated London News, June 1844:</p>
<p>&#8220;We are sorry to see it stated that there is pending an invasion of the sylvan shades of Greenwich, that most favourite resort of smoke-dried Londoners. An immense tank, to supply the hospital with water is to occupy with its unsightlyness one of the prettiest spots in the park, sweeping away the ancient barrows which have hitherto been carefully preserved as objects of antiquarian interest.&#8221;</p>
<p>We must make sure that the Park is properly reinstated; that no expense is spared when repairing the terrible damage that has been done to it. We must fight to keep the Park public; that is, open to the public, free, all year round.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Capability Bowes</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-104011</link>
		<dc:creator>Capability Bowes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 06:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-104011</guid>
		<description>Give it a rest, will you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give it a rest, will you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greenwich pensioner</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-103994</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenwich pensioner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 13:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-103994</guid>
		<description>&quot;All you can do is try and ensure that what has been borrowed from the public is returned to the public in the condition in which it was found&quot;

Ad you can try to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again. Seb Coe says that the Olympics are a once-in-a-lifetime  event. This isn&#039;t true for those who remember the 1948 Games. But it is true for most people. The Park has not been closed to the public for 4 weeks since it was opened to the public all year round in 1820. 

The Park is protected by a raft of Laws, but the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport now has a big say in what happens. For example, it is illegal to ride or graze a horse (other than a police horse) in Greenwich Park. The Secretary of State made an exception in the case of Olympic and Paralympic horses. 

Part of the reason why the Park is as it is (or was before LOCOG moved in) is that local people have fought to preserve it and pass it on to future generations. 

 &quot;Eton Dorney was public space and environmentally sensitive. But I don’t recall there being a campaign there to stop the Olympics coming.&quot;

I think that Eton Dorney is owned by Eton College. 
http://www.dorneylake.co.uk/index.html
On Google maps it looks like an artificial lake created especially for rowing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;All you can do is try and ensure that what has been borrowed from the public is returned to the public in the condition in which it was found&#8221;</p>
<p>Ad you can try to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again. Seb Coe says that the Olympics are a once-in-a-lifetime  event. This isn&#8217;t true for those who remember the 1948 Games. But it is true for most people. The Park has not been closed to the public for 4 weeks since it was opened to the public all year round in 1820. </p>
<p>The Park is protected by a raft of Laws, but the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport now has a big say in what happens. For example, it is illegal to ride or graze a horse (other than a police horse) in Greenwich Park. The Secretary of State made an exception in the case of Olympic and Paralympic horses. </p>
<p>Part of the reason why the Park is as it is (or was before LOCOG moved in) is that local people have fought to preserve it and pass it on to future generations. </p>
<p> &#8220;Eton Dorney was public space and environmentally sensitive. But I don’t recall there being a campaign there to stop the Olympics coming.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that Eton Dorney is owned by Eton College.<br />
<a href="http://www.dorneylake.co.uk/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dorneylake.co.uk/index.html</a><br />
On Google maps it looks like an artificial lake created especially for rowing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Capability Bowes</title>
		<link>http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2012/07/just-where-do-we-stand/comment-page-2/#comment-103924</link>
		<dc:creator>Capability Bowes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 09:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/?p=11111#comment-103924</guid>
		<description>&quot;I often wondered at the time when walking home through the park in the dark&quot;

As far as I was aware, the park is closed to pedestrians just before dusk.

&quot;How long would we be able to enjoy the tremendous privilege of having such pristine, historic and fragile amenities, until someone took note of them, and tried to use them to their advantage?&quot;

One could say that about any public space. Any public amenity is oepn to such abuse - you only have to look at public buildings such as libraries.  The area around the 02 was once &quot;public space&quot; - its now private property, with all the restrictions on your personal freedom that this entails.  What is now Canary Wharf is exactly the same - a private fiefdom created out of what used to be public space.  The Olympic Park was built on what was essentially public space.  

&quot;For many of us who live/d there, this is a wanton and pointless desecration of a beautiful place&quot;

But it hasnt been destroyed.  Its been used for a very short space of time.  Stop using over-emotive language.  If it had been concreted over, you could say it had been &quot;destroyed&quot;.  

&quot;This is how things are – what can we do about it?&quot;

Nothing.  What&#039;s done is done.  Che sera, sera.  You cannot prevent it happening because it has already happened.  All you can do is try and ensure that what has been borrowed from the public is returned to the public in the condition in which it was found.  No doubt the riverside at Eton Dorney was public space and environmentally sensitive.  But I don&#039;t recall there being a campaign there to stop the Olympics coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I often wondered at the time when walking home through the park in the dark&#8221;</p>
<p>As far as I was aware, the park is closed to pedestrians just before dusk.</p>
<p>&#8220;How long would we be able to enjoy the tremendous privilege of having such pristine, historic and fragile amenities, until someone took note of them, and tried to use them to their advantage?&#8221;</p>
<p>One could say that about any public space. Any public amenity is oepn to such abuse &#8211; you only have to look at public buildings such as libraries.  The area around the 02 was once &#8220;public space&#8221; &#8211; its now private property, with all the restrictions on your personal freedom that this entails.  What is now Canary Wharf is exactly the same &#8211; a private fiefdom created out of what used to be public space.  The Olympic Park was built on what was essentially public space.  </p>
<p>&#8220;For many of us who live/d there, this is a wanton and pointless desecration of a beautiful place&#8221;</p>
<p>But it hasnt been destroyed.  Its been used for a very short space of time.  Stop using over-emotive language.  If it had been concreted over, you could say it had been &#8220;destroyed&#8221;.  </p>
<p>&#8220;This is how things are – what can we do about it?&#8221;</p>
<p>Nothing.  What&#8217;s done is done.  Che sera, sera.  You cannot prevent it happening because it has already happened.  All you can do is try and ensure that what has been borrowed from the public is returned to the public in the condition in which it was found.  No doubt the riverside at Eton Dorney was public space and environmentally sensitive.  But I don&#8217;t recall there being a campaign there to stop the Olympics coming.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
