Greenwich Goes Royal
So - apparently we're to become a 'Royal Borough.' It sounds nice, and I read that it's a rare honour, bestowed because of the links we had with the crown in the middle ages, but can anyone tell me what this actually means in any real practical sense?
I don't want to be a grump and I guess I'd rather live in a Royal Borough than not - but what will it mean other than a some fancy road signs and new batch of stationery for the council?
I don't want to be a grump and I guess I'd rather live in a Royal Borough than not - but what will it mean other than a some fancy road signs and new batch of stationery for the council?
Labels: Debates
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
17:04
62 Comments:
So we get a Royal tag but still don't have a bridge or decent transport network...
we have 2 tunnels, a ferry 2 DLRs, 2 Mainline Stations, a tube station through the West End and a load of buses. We are no worse off than many parts of London.
Can't help as to what this means though
Extra day off work in June 2012 too- because of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee.
Can I be the first to say "Stuff the Jubilee" (although back in 1977 it brought 'God Save the Queen' (Sex Pistols) and 'Corgi Crap' (Drones). I remember travelling miles in an attempt to find a pub that was not "bejacked" (definition: covered in Union Jacks).
All I could find is that Kensington became a Royal Borough at Edward VII's request as Queen Victoria wanted to confer Royal Status on the place of her birth
However I would draw attention to the post Medieval Royal connections with Greenwich which
include:
1. Henry VIII, Mary Tudor and Elizabeth I all being born at Greenwich and death of Edward VI (Henry VIII's son)
2. The building of the Queen's House and subsequent links to Ann of Denmark, Henrietta Maria, Mary II
3. The building of the Kings House (now forms part of King Charles block in University complex
4. The founding of the Greenwich Hospital 1694 (by William III but backdated to when Mary II was alive)
5. Establishment of the Royal Greenwich Observatory (Charles II)
6. Princess of Wales (George IV consort being Ranger)
7. The Royal Naval Asylum purchasing the Queens House and developing it as a school then combining with the Greenwich Hospital School
8. One of the Duke of Edinburgh's titles is Baron Greenwich
I am all for Bank Holidays lets hope it becomes a permanent one
What does 'Royal' mean in the context of Royal Borough of... Royal
Society of...?
The use of the word 'Royal' in connection with a society, borough or
organisation indicates that they were founded or established by, or are
under the patronage of, a Sovereign or royal person.
There are three English boroughs that have the title 'Royal': Kensington
and Chelsea, Kingston upon Thames and Windsor and Maidenhead, indicating
that historically a Sovereign has conferred that title upon them.
There are many other 'Royal' societies or organisations that have
received Royal patronage, among them the Royal Automobile Club, granted
the patronage of Edward VII in 1907, and the Royal Society - a society
incorporated by Charles II in 1662 for the pursuit and advancement of
the physical sciences.
http://www.tolearnenglish.com/free/civi/monarchy.php#5
sorry it's a bit 'bitsy', blogging isn't so easy on a phone.
If Greenwich is 'under the patronage of' .... Maybe some of the arts will benefit?
...is there a Royal Kebab House..or am I thinking about that dreadful curry house that used to be on Trafalgar Road.
There was a picture of the Queen Mum pulling a pint on the Tolly's wall for many years - does that count?
Wasn't it given to recognise that the speed of traffic through the town centre is now similar to speeds achieved in Henry VIII's time?
Now where did I park my horse and cart...
;-)
The Royals eh? I think that means your going to be taken over by a load of scouse builders in the lead up to the Olympics and they will demand copius cups of tea and Bacon sarnies , I'm sure its all been arranged by Boris as some sort of reparation payment....
I suspect it means a rent hike...
Why is everyone so miserable and negative? It is a piece of good news people. I don't expect you to get the bunting out but a little bit of civic pride and less whinging wouldn't go amiss.
Dare I remind you of The Old Friends maxim?
Congrats, to all in Greenwich.I flew back from Cornwall last night into City airport. Greenwich looked just great from above.Thanks to all that waved back!!from Greenwich Park
Surprised "Red Roddo" hasn't waded in on this one yet...
I expect it will merely be a further gimmick for overseas tourists. "Oh Mary-Sue, we just gotta see that ROYAL Greenwich!"
According to Our Glorious Leader, we should all be "very excited". He will presumably now be dressing up as Henry VIII and strutting around the Council Chamber shouting "Off with his head!"
According to me, we had our recycling bins TAKEN AWAY BY THE COUNCIL because someone in the block put some polystyrene in one of them.
Cynical me thinks increase in council tax, house prices and rents. Happy days ;-)
Polar Bear - I agree. would be nice if people did something other than moan and whinge in 2010...
If my house price goes up, I certainly won't be complaining about that!
But, in all seriousness, isn't it just pointing out to everyone else what we already knew about Greenwich, which is it's royal history ties and how now so fab it's where the Royals would want to live?
I think Henry VIII got round the traffic problem by using the river.
You can blame the Earl of Romney for the road congestion he was the one who diverted it
Why the Tudor fixation? most of the historic buildings that dominate Greenwich are due to the patronage of the Stuarts: Queens House (Ann of Denmark/Henrietta Maria);
Greenwich Hospital/Royal Naval College (William & Mary and Charles II); Flamsteed House (Charles II)
RE Royal Borough Status
I am none the wiser, having searched various sources as to what special priveledges being a Royal Borough confers......!
I found the following under Royal Patronage on Wikki it seems to imply Royal Boroughs are a post Victorian invention
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_place_names_with
_royal_patronage
According to Wikki
Royal Borough
Although several English boroughs sometimes are called "royal", there are only three boroughs that have the current legal right to the title of Royal Borough - I maybe reading it incorrectly but all 3 seem to be post 1899 titles
• Kensington and Chelsea – transferred from Borough of Kensington in 1965. Originally gained in 1901, fulfilling a wish by Queen Victoria to honour her birthplace.
• Kingston upon Thames – transferred from Borough of Kingston upon Thames in 1965. An ancient title, confirmed by George V in 1927.
• Windsor and Maidenhead – transferred from Borough of Windsor in 1974
(nb There are far more towns with "Regis" in their names)
Re The Arts/ 19th & 20th century Royal Patronage
Charles I housed some of his collection at Greenwich
The Queen's House was the first British Palladian building (Inigo Jones)
The Greenwich Hospital had a collection open to the public
There has been a Naval Museum presence at Greenwich since the Royal Naval College was established in the Greenwich Hopistal buildings and contained the Royal Naval Museum and also the Painted Hall.
George IV and William IV both contributed to the Painted Hall
The National Maritime Museum came into being in 1934 and absorbed the Royal Naval Museum -
various members of the Royal family have supported the Maritime Museum including GeorgeV and Queen Mary, King George VI, and the current Queen.
I would guess that any current members of the Royal Family, who have served as officers in the Royal Navy, will have had some training at Greenwich
Now I will go and build a snowman in the park... and hope Deptford is not cut off
It is the only good thing that will be happening in Greenwich (indeed London...) in 2012, and it might make a few more 'Londoners' aware of the delights to be found in SE London...
...although I do suspect that it might be a way of placating those of us (me included) who aren't enthralled about the prospect of what is happening to our beloved ROYAL park in 2012.
Last time I looked we had more than 2 mainline railway stations. There are eight just between Greenwich and Abbey Wood
While it may be nice to award Greenwich Royal borough status I am not sure whether the lads and lasses with such bright ideas ever think through what they propose, probably solely for some transient PR reason. Certainly not by using their common sense. After all, Greenwich has been the Royal Manor of East Greenwich since before Elizabeth I took the throne.
Greenwich in recent decades has been called Greenwich Borough Council, the London Borough of Greenwich and is now plain old Greenwich Council. Each time the name changes the long-suffering Council Tax payer stumps up for all the new letterheads, public signs, street names, a bit of Mayor’s chain of office, departmental memorandum sheets, all local school books and sign boards, and all the other tiresome its and bits which need amendment. An expert graphics designer will be required and his/her fee won’t be small. Remember London Transport’s translation into Transport for London when Ken Livingstone was in charge. It cost a fortune of our money and made no difference whatsoever in keeping the trains and buses running on time.
If Greenwich is to become a Royal borough what will it be called? Surely nothing as drab as Royal Greenwich Council - and will Government hand over a large bag of cash to effect the changes? The money could come out of the £42m budget for the Equestrian Olympics in Greenwich. Now that would be a heritage gain out of 2012.
It means a re-brand! Yeah! The good old council gets to re-brand everything from bins to the library. Shouting about the fact we now live in a royal borough and how lucky we are to be here, rather than spending money where it is actually going to be productive.
Style over substance i fear- think of what happens to the railways each time a new company takes over. At last those horrid 'welcome to the Millennium Borough' signs will go...
It means a re-brand! Yeah! The good old council gets to re-brand everything from bins to the library. Shouting about the fact we now live in a royal borough and how lucky we are to be here, rather than spending money where it is actually going to be productive.
Style over substance i fear- think of what happens to the railways each time a new company takes over. At last those horrid 'welcome to the Millennium Borough' signs will go...
Its about time that the monarchy was phased out.
This anachronism has no place in a modern society, the idea that we place people on high because of an accident of birth, is ridiculous.
And so it begins.... from today's "Standard"
"Greenwich Councillor Chris Roberts [bet he was well pleased they didn't accord him the epithet of Leader] said... the honour was likely to require all street signs in the borough to be replaced... "People living in Greenwich will want it to say 'Royal Borough of Greenwich' on the street signs. The borough's coat of arms may need to change and the mayor's chain may need to be adjusted. We will be talking to people about that"".
Nice one. Glad you've got your eyes on the details. Actually, I suspect that most of us couldnt give a stuff about what it says on the street signs. And we already have a perfectly good coat of arms, which appears nowwhere on any Council stationery apart from that of the Leader's Office. I suspeect what we really want is: decent local services, rubbish collected on time and without it being strewn all over the pavement and the wheelie bins left for us to put back, decent schools, sufficient books in both them and our libraries, maintenance of our historic buildings, a bit more care and attention to our parks, decent hospitsls and a Damehood for the Phantom.
Oh, and while you're at it Chris - how about getting some grit down on the roads so that we can get around? That would be nice start.
Dave - you're the sort of fickle git who will travel to another country to wallow in their heritage and proclaim some sort of cultural superiority yet happily decry our own imperial OR OTHER history. Might I suggest you live somewhere a little more appropriate to your outlook? Canary Wharf, perhaps - dry and souless, without reason and certainly not of any soulfull meaning.
RP_GUAB - this sort of thing keeps sign writers in business. Don't knock it.
'Anonymous said...' - HERE,HERE. Will the whingers, moaners, anarchists, nogoers, feckless, witless and grumps please put a sock in it!
Hitherqueen got it right – we should be cynical because this ‘honour’ bestowed on Greenwich would not have happened without reason…so we should ask why now make Greenwich a Royal Borough? And the answer to that must be a combination of a) placating the locals who are and will protest against the Olympics and b) making Greenwich more of a tourist attraction for the Olympics. Yes, be cynical because nothing happens without a reason behind it. Read your Chomsky.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH ALL YOU PEOPLE! THIS IS FANTASTIC NEWS...
Anonymous......It would not matter where I lived I would not support the concept of a monarchy
What exactly is so "Fantasic" about it? Will it have any measureable effect on our lives? No, it won't. It will just end up costing us a lot of money while the Council rebrands itself, changes all the street signs, pays someone a lot of money to resign the web page, letterheads, the Coat of Arms (which is very rarely in evidence anyway) and, apparently, the Mayor's Chain of Office.
And how long before Cllr Mr. Roberts redesigns his office and his home and gets crowns embroidered on his underpants and charges it all to us?
And the roads STILL arent being gritted.
I'M SORRY... IT'S NOT FANTASTIC? IN MY BOOK IT IS... EVERY TIME SOMETHING GOOD HAPPENS TO GREENWICH, EVERYONE JUST MOANS AND BLEETS ABOUT IT... SO DISAPPOINTING...
I KNOW, WE COULD SUGGEST A NEW SKIT (ALA LITTLE BRITAIN) AND INSTEAD OF THE 'COMPUTER SAYS NO', IT COULD BE 'GREENWICH SAYS NO!'...
GREENWICH EQUESTRIAN EVENT... GREENWICH SAYS NO...
PEDESTRIANISATION... GREENWICH SAYS NO
ROYAL BOROUGH STATUS... GREENWICH SAYS NO
ANY BUILDING DEVELOPMENTS (SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE, NMM EXTENSION, CUTTY SARK ETC ETC... GREENWICH SAYS NO!
WHAT A BUNCH OF SAD SACKS!!!
Oh Dear Anonymous what an angry little person you are.
I suggest you take one of your pills and have a lay down in a dark room.
It's not everyone one that wants to tag on to the tails of the establishment...get a grip
What a quaint almost regal turn of phrase you have shouty Anon!
"Surprised "Red Roddo" hasn't waded in on this one yet..."
You talking to me?
Does anyone think that we've become a Royal Borough because it will sound great during the Olympics?!!!
Sceptical I know, but hey, I like to run with the vibe!!!
PS - maybe we'll get gold bins?
P & D
Wot about the Republicans- you forgot about us!
"Does anyone think that we've become a Royal Borough because it will sound great during the Olympics?!!!"
I make you right there, definitely.
Anon - no need to shout mate - we're entitled to our opinions, even if, unfortunately, they are not the same as yours. Also, your scattergun approach is inaccurate and random.
Greenwich has not said No to the equestrian events - my feeling is that opinion is divided.
Greenwich has not said No to pedestrianisation - the jury is out. We're considering it - OK?
Greenwich has not said No to the Cutty Sark redevelopment - everybody just wants the old girl back, better than ever.
Greenwich has not said No to the School of Architecture - most people seem to me to be in favour.
Greenwich has not said No to the new wing at the Museum - we're all waiting to see what it looks like and what's in it.
Greenwich has not said No to Royal Borough status - I personally think it will be (if anything) good for Greenwich, but please excuse us if some of us are not quite so enthralled by a family of chinless oddball Krauts as we might be. (Please don't start bleating that that's racist - I'm half German).
If you have anything further to say on this forum please don't feel that you need to shout - we can all hear you. (If this was my blog, which it isn't, all comments posted in all upper case would be deleted - I know several where this is the rule).
Polar Bear -
"Dare I remind you of The Old Friends maxim?"
No - you may not
Yeah - damn right. Anon keep a civil tongue in your head. This is not the Dark Ages and we aren't peasants. People come along with these bright ideas about what they're going to do to our town, and we have opinions for and against. Because we've got brains in our heads. And that's the way it should be. This being a democracy and all that.
What I really do object to is this "stop moaning, toe the line, rally round the flag, get behind the Olympics" mentality where anyone who may be sceptical about something that's being foisted upon Greenwich is a whinger.
Grow up - this isn't the Blitz, we're not sitting down in Bethnal Green tube listening to Vera Lynn, keeping a stiff upper lip.
We're sophisticated, educated adults and we are entitled to have our opinions about processes that have been dreamed up by people who usually live somewhere else, and are inflicting these things upon us for their own purposes.
We're allowed to say "We're not keen on this" We love Greenwich and want it to remain unique.
Stop shouting at us.
Luther - right on mate. Are you going down the Pelton tomorrow?
Rod; yes - "Red Roddo". Quite catchy eh?
And I'm not Mr. Shouty anonymous. Too many anonimi (?), isn't it confusing.
That Dave must be a right laugh at parties.
Royal Borough of Greenwich - it's a bit of fun isn't it? Why not? We'll get some posh new street furniture and it'll keep those pseudo-commie criminals at Council HQ a little more in check.
"please excuse us if some of us are not quite so enthralled by a family of chinless oddball Krauts as we might be."
That's the Rod we all know and love...I concur - not necessarily a bad old lot,and entertaining in a minor way occasionally, and in short bursts. A bit like mad people on the bus. The Royals I mean, Rod, not you.
Also-good summing up for Mr Shouty. Now where's my cider?
Anoymous....You're good at name calling but a bit short in other depts.
You have your head the clouds mate whilst a good many others have their feet on the ground.
Hats off to the Squire eh?
Actually Dave I think I have my feet "planted" a good deal more firmly than you might think.
What a human needs now and then is a spirit-lifter. The world is full of misery and woe and it's simple perfunctory things like this that can often add a little polish to an otherwise mundane existence.
Whether or not the monarchical structure is archaic doesn't detract from the fact that, if anything, this has bought our part of the world a little more to peoples attention. If you're reading a Greenwich-centric website you must concede you have a little interest in the locale and to put a downer on things with your miserable quasi-anarchic rhetoric is just not cricket.
I suggest you pick your feet up a little and reach for those clouds!!
Wolfe -
"A bit like mad people on the bus. The Royals I mean, Rod, not you. "
Well, when I'm coming home from work on the 177 women often say to their children, "No, Jade, don't sit next to him - he smells like a brewery."
I liked Luther Blissett's comment, and concur completely. As I've said here before, the Shouty lobby don't actually have an argument - they just keep chanting "It'll be good for Greenwich" like the Hari Khrisna people on Oxford St, hoping that if the mantra is repeated often enough, people will come to believe it.
Nice to have you back, Wolfe - I'd be delighted to stand you a drink, but, by some incredible managment oversight, neither the Union nor the Dog and Bell keep Strongbow.
Finally, everyone take care now - the pavements are terribly slippery - especially you Shouty. I'd hate to see you fall on your arse.
"What a human needs now and then is a spirit-lifter."
Absolutely 100% correct - that's why we've just had Christmas. Rather better than the von Saxe, Coburg, Gotha und Battenberg family, I think.
"to put a downer on things with your miserable quasi-anarchic rhetoric is just not cricket."
No offence, but I actually laughed out loud when I read that. Really. What Dave said was -
"This anachronism has no place in a modern society, the idea that we place people on high because of an accident of birth, is ridiculous."
I think many people who read this blog and think of themselves as members of a modern pluralist society would agree with that, rather mild, statement, even if they do not wish the Windsors any harm personally.
It's not exactlty Trotskyist to wonder when the people of Britain might become citizens, rather than subjects, in my view.
But it's nice that Shouty has taken a telling and learned some manners, though, isn't it?
"Luther - right on mate. Are you going down the Pelton tomorrow?"
Yeah about 8-ish. Mine's a Strongbow m8.
"just not cricket." LOL!!!
If only Meet Bernard sold blazers I'd dash out and buy one!
Do we think shoutyman is the one person in G'wich who might actually understand dressage?
Sounds like we need to start petitioning the council.
No to Royal Status! Down with the Monarchy!
Who's in?
Rod ...Thanks for your support, you have endorsed my point of view better than I perhaps could have expressed it in the first place.
Anonymous...You can speak for yourself,you may live a dull and dreary mundane life ,but others may not. I do not need the artificial 'lift' afforded by bestowing Royal status to our borough.
As for your latest contribution here, I have not read so much pompous nonsense for some time.
I would suggest that you are living in a very dark place, somewhere near your nether regions.
Rod and Dave's comments are the most 'spirit-lifting' thing I've read in a while. Made me laugh out loud! Here here to those comments!
Rod and Dave's comments are the most 'spirit-lifting' thing I've read in a while. Made me laugh out loud! Here, here to those comments!
"The world is full of misery and woe and it's simple perfunctory things like this that can often add a little polish to an otherwise mundane existence."
Erm....how, exactly?
BT recently changed their logo from that awful Woolf Olins "man with the pipes" to the equally awful "sphere made of coloured dots". Did it add any polish to their service or our mundane existence? No, its just as bad as usual.
The Distiller's Company changed their name to Diageo about 10 years ago. Did it add any polish to their service or our mundane existence? No.
Its just re-arranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. Window dressing. Its not going to have any measurable effect on our mundane existence whatsoever. It wont get the bins emptied more regularly, or increase the number of books in the library. It won't improve the pupil/teacher ratio in our schools or improve the air quality.
What's in a name? That which we would call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
I bet Shoutyprat wishes he never started this, don't you? LOL!!!
This is the most fab thread ever...!
I'm facinated that so many of us just see the huge cost and no benefit- I certainly agree.
Greenwich Borough Council need to really focus on the basics and not get diverted by this Royal twaddle. But no, they'll be ordering gold crowns to stick all over their buildings on Monday morning.
Finally, well done Phantom for getting this started and bringing so many wonderful people together!! And Shoutyman.
"Alaska Pollock said...
I bet Shoutyprat wishes he never started this, don't you? LOL!!!"
Ha! Shoutyprat is SO much better!
"That Dave must be a right laugh at parties."
For the record Shoutypants, I've had Dave to many of my parties and he is indeed a right laugh.
SO THERE!
Ooo my last comment came up as Anon!
Wendy
Greenwich Borough Council need to really focus on the basics and not get diverted by this Royal twaddle. But no, they'll be ordering gold crowns to stick all over their buildings on Monday morning.
I make you right there, and the same goes for the Olympics too. God alone knows how much time, money, resources, energy has been diverted by all this rubbish away from where it should have been going.
This week's Greenwich Time (w/c 11/1/10) was filled with page after page of royal stuff- really quite sickening.
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