East Greenwich Library
I've been getting increasingly concerned at the state of East Greenwich Library. Whereas its sister in West Greenwich, also funded by the philanthropist Andrew Carnegie's foundation in the early years of the last century continues to be a well-loved - and used - part of the community, the Woolwich Road version gets ever tattier, ever lonelier and seemingly ever fewer books.
I go in there occasionally, and I would like to go in more often, but it's been a long while since there was actually a book I wanted to get out - the selection seems to consist of large-print romances, technical manuals and kiddies' picture books (though there is a small section of local history volumes.) The place was clearly once rather grand, but now it just has a sad air of neglect, almost as though it's waiting a fate of doom.
What that doom would be, no one seems to know. The building is Grade II listed, but, in a chilling conversation I will never forget that I had with a pimply young promotions guy at the blink-and-you'd-miss-it 'consultation' for the Heart of East Greenwich (all rather a long while ago now...) I discovered listing won't necessarily save it. The arrogant young pup announced with great glee that only the facade is listed - they can do what they like with the rest (and yes, that's not far off the exact words he used.)
While he's hopefully been hurriedly bundled off for 're-training' - the last thing they need is someone who's actually truthful at these events - that doesn't help us.
The pictures of deep-down rot on this post were taken by Charlie, who's also very concerned about what's to become of the library. He says:
"Currently, the building’s central heating system isn’t working, the flat above the front of the building is condemned and about 1/3 of the building’s lying derelict. It’s a real shame, and I’m hoping to get a question asked at Council about what the library’s future is, particularly since the proposed replacement in the “Heart of East Greenwich” project is looking more distant than ever."
I bet you didn't know there's a Friends of East Greenwich Library. I didn't either - and they're not easy to find. They don't have a website but they do have good intentions in their hearts - and a track record. Terry Wheeler says:"The library campaign in East Greenwich was started by Richard & Molly Bartlett in the early 90's and I became very active within the group and after what Bob Harris, (our opponent in the council) described as a brilliant campaign, following our listing of the building, East Greenwich Library was saved.
Sadly, at a price, because they shut half of the building down, reduced the opening hours and the stock to a fraction of what it was and got rid of our wonderful old oak shelving and called it a model library."
"Following a report in Greenwich Time that a sum of £1.3m for five libraries but with nothing for East Greenwich, we started writing to the press and contacting our councillors about our library with the result that in September, we had a meeting with John Fahy who is going to get some work done to make the building more waterproof, clean the front and do some redecoration."
"It was finally admitted by councillor Fahy at that meeting that the new 'wonder' library we have been told we should be grateful for, which will be ready by 2012, will not, actually be ready, for at least 4 years, if not five.When I saw Dick Quibell, he said that they needed to have the social housing in place first before the new library would be built in order to generate some income. I understand there are problems with funding for the old hospital site, so my guess is that it could be six, if not seven years away, if then. I for one, like the library, where it is, in the building it has been in since 1905. Carnegie got it right.
We also managed to get the council to clear the blocked drain outside the library which had caused flooding in the library through the floor every time there was heavy rain. The gutters in the Tunnel Avenue part of the building were cleared of weeds and grass following representations to our councillors. We have suggested that flat above the library be repaired and let to generate income, and, indeed, suggested this over ten years ago.
Our library, and it's building, which is listed, has been severely neglected despite the efforts we made to get it repaired and the suggestions we have made to the council over the years to help generate some income.Despite the obligations of the council to upkeep this listed building, it has taken a lot of effort by numerous members of our group to start things moving."
So - what can we do to help push things along? Well, firstly, we need to let the council know we do give a damn.
I know it's hard when there aren't really any books in the library to borrow (although I can see that for short-sighted romantics and parents with bookworm kiddies it's still very useful) but if there's some way that we can tell them we don't want to lose what we have now, and, when the magical Heart of East Greenwich finally gets built we don't want it sold off for luxury flats but used for something community-related, then maybe it's not completely doomed after all.
Writing to John Fahy would be good - I suspect Mary Mills is already batting on the side of the library - and letting the print-press know (especially Greenwich Time, who have suggested that the money outlined for various libraries but not East Greenwich could be an 'oversight' - not that the 'mistake' has ever been rectified...)
If you're wanting to really get your hands dirty here, you can also contact Terry by emailing him - feglig@yahoo.co.uk.
Labels: Debates, East Greenwich Library, Places of Interest
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
08:30
19 Comments:
Mr Pimples was mistaken. Listing status covers an entire building, outside and inside.
Oooh - that's rather good to know. So - not only did he do his cause no good at all, he was actually wrong.
I'll check that out...
English Heritage website, and whichever officer there who deals with LB of G. If only Greenwich Council had some one on the staff who knew - or cared - about conservation matters, and Greenwich.
Anon 10.25
West Greenwich library is of course closed until 22 February 2010 for refurbishment. Hopefully after this it will indeed continue to be well loved.
Sadly that, of course, rather illustrates my point. West Greenwich Library is being refurbished, East Greenwich is falling to pieces.
Been running round about all sorts of issues on the Library for weeks now -(and over the past 15 hours about the nasty little gaggle of smokers round the door and their dog ends).
There should be something definite soon - and not just about the front door.
Listed Building Consent
3.2 Anyone who wants to demolish a listed building, or to alter or extend one in any way that affects its character, must obtain 'listed building consent' from the local planning authority (the District or London Borough Council), or in some circumstances the Secretary of State. The procedure is similar to that for obtaining planning permission. (Details can be obtained from the Planning Department of any County, District or London Borough Council).
3.3 It is an offence to demolish, alter or extend a listed building without listed building consent and the penalty can be a fine of unlimited amount or up to twelve months' imprisonment, or both.
From Heritage.co.uk site.
Although I have seen on a number of occassions owners of listed buildings have purposefully let buildings fall into disrepair to strengthen their case for demolition
Yes, nicely quoted Benedict. And quite often, the EH officers are let down by the lack of interest or awareness (or more sinister interests) by the local planning officers. All around the country, not just London.
Anon 10.25
'Mr Pimples was mistaken. Listing status covers an entire building, outside and inside.......'
The East and West Stand at Highbury Stadium were also listed....and now only the fascia remain. Maybe Mr Pimples was correct?
Which part of buildings are listed is a grey area.
The listing itself will often cite the areas that specifically cannot be touched; which will often be the facades, windows etc.
For most interior alterations, in practice many architects will advise you to go ahead. But if a neighbour protests, you will often be forced to stop work and apply for a listing.
In this case, if one protests before work is done, they will probably be forced to apply for Listing consent; if someone protests afterwards, nothing will happen.
Greenwich Council's attitude to listing is illustrated by the widespread practice of cleaning/stripping bricks on listed buildings (not allowed) or replacement plastic windows in Conservation areas (similarly not allowed). They do nothing, even after complaints.
The only solution here is constant vigilance.
The listing refers mainly to the exterior but also mentions tuscan colunns in the large library, original roof structure in the children's library and a casst iron fireplace 'painted over with art nouveau motifs'. Listing not revised since 1993, so how does that measure against present condition?
Full text accessible via Heritage Gateway site - use advanced search facility and address.
East Greenwich library looks sad and depressed. I've lived in the area for three years now, and E.Greenwich continues to look worse and worse by the day.
Since arriving in the area 3 yrs ago we've had a strip club, an amusement arcade and numerous chip shops appear...
I thought the new "Heart for East Greenwich" might help breathe new life into the area... but I'll alas have to wait along time before we see a new pool, library etc appear... all whilst Greenwich council tries to play property ladder by waiting for the best time to sell their existing properties.
Vote for change at the next election!
Vote for change indeed - but for Gawd's sake keep Mary Mills in! (at the Council elections, that is)
Go to www.imagesofengland.org and you will be able to check out what is actually listed. Listing status does not cover the entire building.
The location is poor though. The numbers visting it are very small. The 70s flyover ruined accesibility to the building, and in the long term it should be re-located to the main row of shops in East Greenwich. The footfall for noth shops and businesses there would increase given close proximity. In the short term thorugh it needs to be spruced up - as does the whole road and bridge which is an eye sore. Plant trees, paint the bridge and add decent lighting to make the area more attractive and welcoming.
On the subject of the wider area - the new flats and shops built a few doors along are utterly atrocious. Some of the cheapest and ugliest new builds I've seen. That type of poor quality building is symtomatic of the lack of publicity for proposed developments in local newspapers, and subsquently an uninformed public who aren't aware of whats going ahead, and an inept council that green lights cheap developers proposals.
Unfortunately Margaret Thatcher changed the planning rules - you can't simply refuse permission for a development because it's ugly. To do so is to invite an appeal, which you will lose if the building meets various policies, and incur huge costs. (This is the stick Tesco uses to beat up cash-strapped councils).
AS for listing covering the facade alone, that is nonsense. Listing status does cover an entire building, as Bernard's post illustrates.
Yeah, that Bernard knows his stuff
Not going to get involved in arguments on listing - though I might like to. I understand that weatherproofing and so on will be done on the building - I am waiting to hear about the date - and the money is coming out of a different pot than those libraries which have had a lot of publicity for a new issue system - which is why it is not in those lists, along with a couple of others.
As ever, happy to look at the building with anyone who wants - its quite an interesting building, built in two separate stages and with what must have originally been all sorts of works buildings out the back. For years it was the main Greenwich Library with all the admin offices and so on - a lot of space now occupied by the community college.
I spent many happy hours of my childhood in that library, and I'm dismayed, disgusted and very sad to see it being allowed to fall into such a delapidated state. I know that funds are tight these days, and I know Greenwich has to move with the times, but one day someone will notice that apart from the Royal Naval College and Greenwich Park, there isn't much of the old Greenwich left.
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