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Friday, 31 July 2009

Old Horses Home

Another from my hideously-large pile of unanswered questions today, from the darkest section of all, labelled 'Hard Stuff...'

Jo (who admits she may have had one or two when she saw this...) asks:

"I took a cab from Greenwich through Deptford and somewhere along the way (think it was only 5 minutes from Greenwich) the cab drove past a stables which seemed to house shire horses – I assumed an old people’s home equivalent for London’s rag and bone horses where they can see out their final days and avoid the glue factory. Do you know anything about it? Google doesn’t throw anything up but another cab driver did know where it was but I’d had a few too many drinks to remember the answer…. "

This has so far defied any attempts to find an answer, Jo - I tried various places and got nothing in the way of answers. I found this list of horse and donkey sanctuaries, none of which appear to be in South East London.

Then I tried looking for heavy horses that might still be working - perhaps drawing those old-fashioned funeral carriages or wedding coaches - but the closest I could find was in Hampton Court.

I understand that Youngs Brewery still uses shire horses, but again - they're in Wandsworth. Lewisham Police Station has horses, but that's one strange journey you would have taken home.

I found an article in the Independent (sadly from 1994) about rag & bone men still using horses, which, being fifteen years old can only be vaguely useful, but is a great read - beautifully and engagingly written. I'm not in the business of reinventing the wheel, so I won't rehash it here, but in brief it talks about Corky, a Deptford totter, and his horse Sarah, who seem to be based somewhere around Broomill Road, though when I was down there a couple of weeks ago I didn't see any likely candidates. Another character, 'the Major', deals in old cookers round the corner, and Billy and John, got out of the totting trade years ago, but kept the horses on as a hobby.

Sadly I can't for a moment hope Corky's still doing the rounds, given the article's entitled The End of the Road for the Rag & Bone Man...

Is it possible you saw a Traveller site, Jo? They often have horses. There's a list of Deptford-local Traveller sites here - recognise your journey at all?

But I have to say - Deptford isn't my manor. Might be worth asking the Dame...

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19 Comments:

Anonymous Edith said...

When was this? There used to be someone kept a horse at the top of Westcombe Hill, and up to the early 80s there were horses in Blackwall Lane - where the motorway slip is at the back of Tunnel Avenue. The Blackeath donkeys used to live in Kidbrooke, and they were later (maybe still are) at the back of Woodlands Farm - and Woodlands Farm had two shire horses until three of four years ago.
Sorry Young's Brewery in Wandsworth and their horses has closed and gone - as have the horses which until the late 1980s lived in a two storey stable near Whitecross Street on the borders of the City

31 July 2009 09:01  
Blogger Deptford Dame said...

Sorry folks, I'm not aware of any stables around this way. We do occasionally see mounted police, but I don't think their mounts live here either.

31 July 2009 09:25  
Anonymous Kate said...

YOu might investigate F. Albin and Sons, the funeral people in Deptford and Bermondsey. They still have the beautiful horses for their hearses and I bet they keep them in Deptford somewhere. See here
http://www.albins.co.uk/web2008/history.htm

Kate

PS *Great* blog, Phantom. Required reading every morning!

31 July 2009 09:55  
Blogger Latelygay said...

Isn't it funny how the Met Police horse riders seem to be under no obligation to bring a poop scoop with them!

31 July 2009 10:07  
Blogger The Greenwich Phantom said...

Useful if you grow roses though...

31 July 2009 10:09  
Anonymous Tony Martin said...

It's not the old gypsy camp behind the carpet shop on the road that runs from Lewisham Way to St. Johns (Elverson road I think) is it? I've seen horses in there before...

31 July 2009 12:17  
Anonymous Rod said...

"understand that Youngs Brewery still uses shire horses, but again - they're in Wandsworth."
Edith's dead right - the brewery closed about three years ago, and the horses had stopped pulling drays locally some time before that. Youngs is just a (not vey good) pub company now - their beer is brewed for them by Charles Wells in Bedford.
We think we've got it bad in Greenwich - spare a thought for the burghers of Wandsworth, who've had the heart torn out of their town (with attendant job losses etc) because a (very) old, (very) rich man decides that, old as he is, he wants to be even richer.

31 July 2009 16:00  
Anonymous Royal Hill Rover said...

Rod - is this a little digrivalry aimed at your Royal Hill neighbours. Always wondered how 2 pubs got along being cheek by jowl.

31 July 2009 16:25  
Blogger Bill Ellson said...

There were some horses being stabled in Deptford about 10 years ago. Cannot remember exactly where and the person I will ask is away for a couple of weeks.

31 July 2009 16:47  
Anonymous Paul said...

No, Rod is completely correct, the closure of Young's brewery was an act of corporate cynicism, inspired mainly by their greed in mopping up £80m or so in a property deal. People used to talk about "Young's Pubs." They don't any more.

Young's attitude to their own heritage is epitomised by an episode of The Simppsons where Homer visits the Duff Beer Brewery. He drools lovingly as he surveys pipes of Duff regular, Duff Dry, Duff Special Export etc.

Then in a split second, wide-angle view, we can see they're all fed from the same pipe.

31 July 2009 16:49  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a random suggestion but this wasn't when they were doing the filming in Greenwich was it?

I know I saw temporary stables in the Royal Naval College last year, and during filming I walked past a van full of tack, so its not impossible that they'd had horses in and homed them somewhere near by for the duration of the shoot.

31 July 2009 23:04  
Anonymous Tony Martin said...

Nah, definately gypsies, and we ALL know what to do with them...!

31 July 2009 23:22  
Anonymous Dave said...

Tony Martin .....I'm hoping this is a poor attempt at a joke

1 August 2009 17:25  
Anonymous DeeBee said...

Up until at least a couple years ago there was an old station horse stables in South Bermondsey not far from the Old Kent Road (with signs for free manure set up in front). It's on the corner of St James's Road and Catlin Street (check it out on GoogleMap). Not sure if the stables are still operating, but from the map images the old brick stable buildings are still there... Might just be the place, it's about 10 minutes from Greenwich just past Deptford.

1 August 2009 21:53  
Blogger rod said...

"Rod - is this a little digrivalry aimed at your Royal Hill neighbours. Always wondered how 2 pubs got along being cheek by jowl."

absolutely not - i would not dream of aiming a digrivalry at a greenwich institution like the tolly. it is just that an act of corporate vandalism on the scale that youngs committed breaks my old brewers heart.
(apologies for the fact that there are no capitaals in this post - i am in germany at present and i cannot figure out how to do them on this german keyboard)

2 August 2009 11:44  
Blogger Jo A said...

DeeBee is spot on.. that's exactly where it was! there were horses in it though not many.

Wow - question answered, the power of the internet community!

Thanks.

3 August 2009 16:20  
Blogger Jo A said...

according to the following link it is The Old Southern Railway Stables 1863.

http://www.visitmap2.co.uk/sites/clients/bermondsey/detailpage.php?pid=37

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=catlin+street&near=London&fb=1&split=1&gl=uk&cid=9850125952651702827&li=lmd

3 August 2009 16:30  
Anonymous Royal Hill Rover said...

Mea culpa Rod, was just asking!

4 August 2009 16:34  
Anonymous Rod said...

Rover -
Don´t mention it - I understand the question, but I just feel that the two pubs are sufficiently different to reduce to virtually zero any rivalry between them.
I first visited the Tolly in 1978, and still like it as a pub - if pushed, I would say that the recent makeover, in particular the white-sofa´d chill-out zone and the toilets (redolent of a West End night club frequented by footballers and WAGS), was a little ill-advised. However, I will admit to having strong feelings about interior designers and traditional pubs.......
(Cue Mrs Rod in background - "Don´t get him started!!!")

5 August 2009 09:34  

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