Licence To Swill
Dennis says:
"I blinked, and suddenly my letterbox had no less than four notifications from the council for licences, or variation thereof. Here we go...
(1) Pistachios Café Bar
(2) Café Sol
(3) Phillies Snack Bar
(4) Green Village Restaurant
...all of whom want to sell booze until the wee smalls, and the last of whom wants so many conditions removed from their "restaurant" licence that they could be mistaken for a pub.
I wonder if anyone else has noticed a surge in applications, or is it just here?"
The Phantom replies:
Wow - you get notices of planning applications through your door? Where do you live? Clearly 'Well-Informed Street, SE10.' Bet you get the local rags, too, like the News Shopper and The Guide. All that comes through The Phantom Letterbox is a never-ending supply of pizza flyers, notifications of 'special' knocked-off electrical goods sales at the William IV and invitations to consult Professor Manjou, the medium who is 100% accurate, you know. Oh - and Greenwich Time, of course.
But enough of the jealousy and back to the licence applications. Four at once, eh. And all the classy joints, I see. I wonder whether they're linked in some way - some sort of subprime Greenwich Inc, created by a new seedy svengali who's gradually taking over all of Greenwich's worst establishments and turning them into an local chain of UberDives. At least Greenwich Inc takes over the good ones...
Cafe Sol is still trying to live down that eek-y Environmental Health debacle a few months ago, when sundry wildlife species were found in the kitchens. They're using the "A Big Boy Did It And Ran Away" chestnut, and it was under 'former ownership' at the time, but I'm not in any hurry to eat there just yet. As for the others - well, we all know about them.
I'll be surprised if the applications succeed. Greenwich Town Centre is developing a serious drunken-lout problem and I can't see the Council doing anything to fan the flames. I recently had a long missive from Nic - who gave me blow-by-blow (sorry) account of a particularly unpleasant day he had which left him at the very least short of cash, short of breath and short of temper, but replete in the bruise department.
But I can see why these places are chancing their arm. Cafes and restaurants, good and bad, are suffering - and will suffer increasingly as cash gets tighter all round. They see drinking establishments like Wetherspoons cleaning up (financially, if not literally) and fancy a piece of the action. I suspect we will see more desperate measures as the year progresses.
The odd thing is that these places could weather the economic storm if they really wanted to. They all of them have prime spots in the town centre, a dream to places like Inside and The Guildford, which people seek out because they're good.
All these joints have to do is actually serve good food and word would get round among the locals, instead of their relying on the gulliblity of tourists. Even in tight times, people like to eat out occasionally - but they want to know their experience will be good. Any of these places could up their game and become somewhere that locals flock to eat. But instead they take a pot shot at the easy route - serving overpriced drinks to drunken arses.
It will be interesting to see if they succeed.
"I blinked, and suddenly my letterbox had no less than four notifications from the council for licences, or variation thereof. Here we go...
(1) Pistachios Café Bar
(2) Café Sol
(3) Phillies Snack Bar
(4) Green Village Restaurant
...all of whom want to sell booze until the wee smalls, and the last of whom wants so many conditions removed from their "restaurant" licence that they could be mistaken for a pub.
I wonder if anyone else has noticed a surge in applications, or is it just here?"
The Phantom replies:
Wow - you get notices of planning applications through your door? Where do you live? Clearly 'Well-Informed Street, SE10.' Bet you get the local rags, too, like the News Shopper and The Guide. All that comes through The Phantom Letterbox is a never-ending supply of pizza flyers, notifications of 'special' knocked-off electrical goods sales at the William IV and invitations to consult Professor Manjou, the medium who is 100% accurate, you know. Oh - and Greenwich Time, of course.
But enough of the jealousy and back to the licence applications. Four at once, eh. And all the classy joints, I see. I wonder whether they're linked in some way - some sort of subprime Greenwich Inc, created by a new seedy svengali who's gradually taking over all of Greenwich's worst establishments and turning them into an local chain of UberDives. At least Greenwich Inc takes over the good ones...
Cafe Sol is still trying to live down that eek-y Environmental Health debacle a few months ago, when sundry wildlife species were found in the kitchens. They're using the "A Big Boy Did It And Ran Away" chestnut, and it was under 'former ownership' at the time, but I'm not in any hurry to eat there just yet. As for the others - well, we all know about them.
I'll be surprised if the applications succeed. Greenwich Town Centre is developing a serious drunken-lout problem and I can't see the Council doing anything to fan the flames. I recently had a long missive from Nic - who gave me blow-by-blow (sorry) account of a particularly unpleasant day he had which left him at the very least short of cash, short of breath and short of temper, but replete in the bruise department.
But I can see why these places are chancing their arm. Cafes and restaurants, good and bad, are suffering - and will suffer increasingly as cash gets tighter all round. They see drinking establishments like Wetherspoons cleaning up (financially, if not literally) and fancy a piece of the action. I suspect we will see more desperate measures as the year progresses.
The odd thing is that these places could weather the economic storm if they really wanted to. They all of them have prime spots in the town centre, a dream to places like Inside and The Guildford, which people seek out because they're good.
All these joints have to do is actually serve good food and word would get round among the locals, instead of their relying on the gulliblity of tourists. Even in tight times, people like to eat out occasionally - but they want to know their experience will be good. Any of these places could up their game and become somewhere that locals flock to eat. But instead they take a pot shot at the easy route - serving overpriced drinks to drunken arses.
It will be interesting to see if they succeed.
Labels: Drinking, Eating Out
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
08:33
19 Comments:
The centre of town does need an injection of evening class - we've had to decamp up the hill to the Greenwich Union since the Gipsy Moth has gone so badly down the can.
(Tough life, I know.)
You make some good points, and it would be great to have some quality restaurants in the heart of Greenwich, but getting a liquor licence in itself isn't always the worst thing: Laura at Nevada St Deli recently got a licence so she could start selling wine, and no one would suggest that they're just looking for the youth vote...
Is this the worst form of Schadenfreude?
On my walk to the DLR this morning, the town centre was looking rather dowdy and I thought to myself - this could be a good thing.
Maybe the recession will help Greenwich revert to something like it used to be.
If commercial rents fall, then perhaps the independent and quirky shops that used to dominate the town centre might make a comeback.
Perhaps the redevelopment of the market might be canned.
Perhaps C&C or the Uni or whomever owns the Stockwell St site these days will be unable to finance its large-scale redevelopment, and the weekend market will survive.
Perhaps inappropriate and characterless in-fill developments - like the new gated community on Bardsley Lane and the proposed behemoth next to Up the Creek - will be mothballed.
Perhaps even, Cod willing, FTW might go bust and have to sell all his pubs back to indy landlords.
Is that a terrible thing to think?
This post has been removed by the author.
we heard you the first time.
Hey Phantom, wrong side of bed??
Green Village and Phillies, both owned by the same family - as is the shop next door, may not be to your taste but they've been in Greenwich for twenty odd years and that shop has been invaluable to anyone who lives in the town centre area. Green Village started life as a kebab shop and expanded from there....OK, it's just a cafe but so what?? They're nice Greenwich people.
And I don't like Cafe Sol, but they cleaned up their act and were cleared to re-open a day after their disastrous inspection. It seems that it actually WAS the fault of the big boy.....AND, a word of praise for Greenwich Inc????? The worst, by far, thing to happen to the character of Greenwich??? I'm shocked.
Sorry RTB. Not sure what happened there.
If you get Greenwich Time Phantom - you get all the public notices including planning applications as they are all in the paper.
Much better than when they appeared in the Mercury as does anyone actually get that in the Borough anymore?
Green Village and Phillies may have been around for years, but so has syphilis, so that does not make it a good experience. I often walk past this place and it looks so depressing - the couple that run it just sit there in the window with a drink on the go reading newspapers looking up when someone walks past in the vague hope they will come in, realise they don't and put their head back into the paper.
A quick search found I was not alone: http://www.london-eating.co.uk/28444.htm
Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with a family run restaurant, indeed often preferred to a chain, but places like these need to innovate or shut.
GG, you make a good point, although your web reference has clearly been written by a person who takes their over-the-top fury out on a computer keyboard. I think that the point I was trying to make is this. Many folks who post here want Greenwich to return to some halcyon age when everything was lovely. It never was. There were always dodgy places and dodgy areas. This is, and was, part of the charm.
I miss many of the old bits, the veg stall, the hardware store, the second hand shops...I also recognise that places like Green Village were part of that...as I said, it's just a cafe.
Franklin also makes some good points but I get the feeling that he would have been saying, in 1954, "Why, oh why do we have to have this big ship landed on us....surely we should be able to keep this bombsite and the slums next door??"
Look forward, guys....and lets hope Frank Dowling goes bankrupt....
Talking of violent late-night Greenwich- 3 shot early this morning outside the North Pole!
Err, no. I like boats.
What I don't like are soulless chain shops and locationally inappropriate architecture.
Both have been sprouting in Greenwich over recent years.
My hope was/is that falling property values might lead to falling rental prices and thus allow independent retailers to flourish, while sapping the desire of developers to build yet more inappropriate mega-complexes in Greenwich.
"Look forward, guys....and lets hope Frank Dowling goes bankrupt...."
Thats the spirit - lets hope one of the largest employers in the borough goes under.
And back in the real world who do you think the recession will hit the hardest? Small independent types with limited working capital and no recourse to finance debt or larger firms with access to cash / finance? Maybe some of the more transient types who may have come to live in much of the 1/2 bed new builds would have created the market for higher end bars/ restaurants rather than the bottom of the market hell whole that is Greenwich town centre at the moment.
I was going to say something about licensing, but the discussion seems to have moved onto Frank Bashing, which I feel betrays a certain lack of imagination.
Obviously some of Frank's experiments have gone hideously wrong, but on the whole the organisation does seem to take their customers (and neighbours) fairly seriously.
The recession will prove interesting, and demonstrate whether Frank is in for the long haul or not. After all, people still do Go Out during a recession, even if they don't spend randomly and indiscriminately. It will be interesting to see if Greenwich Inc can deliver the good value and consistency they'll need in order to establish a loyal and regular customer base to see them through the next couple of years.
So right now, ladies and gentlemen, and you don't know how much this makes me chuckle, Frank Needs You. He's going to have to listen, and respond, if he's going to stay in business.
Vote with your feet.
Fat Cat you are, of course, right on your main point. I don't want to see businesses shut down and employees out of work. However, all the businesses that Greenwich Inc currently run survived the last recession. Some are now expanded which, obviously, provides more work. This I applaud. I wish that the organisation had looked more closely at what made these businesses individual and concentrated on that aspect rather than making a shiny chain of venues, none of which are more memorable than the other. I understand the financial thinking behind it but it betrays a lack of understanding of Greenwich and what makes it appealing.
"One of the largest employers in the borough"?
And we're the ones not living in the real world?
The firms that are going under and will continue to do so are those that are over-leveraged.
Firms that have expanded rapidly in recent years tend to be over-leveraged; their expansion is not typically financed from working capital.
Rolling over debt right now is not easy, or cheap.
If Greenwich Inc has accumulated large debts and has difficulty borrowing, he'd need to sell some assets to cover his liabilities, even if at a loss. Given his expansion at the O2, he might choose to sell some of his town centre pubs, where I suspect the revenue growth prospects are not as strong.
There will almost certainly be ready buyers interested to keep the pubs/resturants running. Possibly even independendents who could give those pubs some soul back.
Hence, no fear about local jobs (or more accurately, poorly paid jobs for uni students).
Franklin - you are correct that those who have over levereged to expand will have to sell assets or go bust. You make the assumption that Inc have financed via debt and over extended themselves. As for a large employer maybe that should have read one of the largest private employers.
My point about who can survive the downturn was a more general point. To what extent do smaller enterprises rely on bank overdrafts etc to ensure their businesses survive given smaller pots of working capital? I would wager that they are more vunerable than a large chain like MacDonalds for instance.
"There will almost certainly be ready buyers interested to keep the pubs/resturants running. Possibly even independendents who could give those pubs some soul back." I seriously doubt this would be the case at the moment.
I wish I could agree with you as Incs bars are just not for me but if they were to go under I would wager there would be a great many dead pubs for a number of years.
McDonald's is predominantly a franchise - not a chain - so franchisees will make-or-break depending on local circumstances. They won't be bailed out by anyone.
Wetherspoon's is perhaps a better example. Sadly, they are thriving financially.
Wouldn't that be the nightmare scenario - FTW sells all his town centre pubs to Wetherspoons!
"Happy hour, every hour".
shudder
My point, though, was that falling property values might lead to lower rents for GHT's properties, which might in turn allow independents - even those with little or no financing - to re-establish a foothold in the town centre...
As for buyers - I'd buy the Tiki-Tiki Lounge (or whatever it's called this week), rename it The Cricketers, sprinkle sawdust on the floor and hang out a sign 'All sorts welcome!' ;-)
Don't know if anyone saw yesterday's crimewatch, but right opposite cafe sol (outside desperados) a bloke randomly got hit in the face then pushed underneath a moving car by two drunk thugs! Later licensing is not what we need!
Also, in another spot of news, the Royal George (next to Greenwich firestation) is closing down in the New Year due to the fact that the pre pubescent school children who used to frequent it in the masses have all turned 18 and started going to better places!
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