Railroaded
Sorry folks - but I just have to have a grumble along with everyone else today.
This morning I looked to see what the damage would be on a Travelcard this year. Off-peak, from Zones 1-4 (yes, I know we're in Zone 3, but there isn't a sodding travelcard for sodding Zone 1-to-sodding-3) it's gone from £5.80 to £6.30. I make that 50p extra a pop. It's now a tenner if you want to travel before 9.30am.
To add insult to injury, if we were actually allowed to use an Oystercard, which they keep on telling us to do, but we can't because it's Southeastern and they, like the other rail companies won't play ball with the rest of TFL, it would be capped to the old price.
So okay. We pay more.
But just get this. Bob has just told me that from December next year, there will be zero - coun't 'em - ZERO - off-peak trains from Greenwich to Charing Cross. You don't believe him? Here's the proof.
Now - I have to give them something - there WILL be more trains for commuters - which, naturally, is good news for anyone who has to stand all the way every day. But cutting an entire service to Charing Cross - so that everyone has to go via Cannon Street, is frankly rubbish. I'm used to trekking across the platforms at London Bridge during the day, but coming home from Charing Cross late at night was really good - and always busy. It's not as though it's not being used.
BTW, both Cannon Street and London Bridge will be building sites this year.
Still, at least Cannon Street tube is open on Saturdays now, from 07:20 to 19:40. It's still completely closed on Sundays. So - no late nights, eh, guys?
This morning I looked to see what the damage would be on a Travelcard this year. Off-peak, from Zones 1-4 (yes, I know we're in Zone 3, but there isn't a sodding travelcard for sodding Zone 1-to-sodding-3) it's gone from £5.80 to £6.30. I make that 50p extra a pop. It's now a tenner if you want to travel before 9.30am.
To add insult to injury, if we were actually allowed to use an Oystercard, which they keep on telling us to do, but we can't because it's Southeastern and they, like the other rail companies won't play ball with the rest of TFL, it would be capped to the old price.
So okay. We pay more.
But just get this. Bob has just told me that from December next year, there will be zero - coun't 'em - ZERO - off-peak trains from Greenwich to Charing Cross. You don't believe him? Here's the proof.
Now - I have to give them something - there WILL be more trains for commuters - which, naturally, is good news for anyone who has to stand all the way every day. But cutting an entire service to Charing Cross - so that everyone has to go via Cannon Street, is frankly rubbish. I'm used to trekking across the platforms at London Bridge during the day, but coming home from Charing Cross late at night was really good - and always busy. It's not as though it's not being used.
BTW, both Cannon Street and London Bridge will be building sites this year.
Still, at least Cannon Street tube is open on Saturdays now, from 07:20 to 19:40. It's still completely closed on Sundays. So - no late nights, eh, guys?
Labels: Greenwich trains, News, Transport
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
14:28
30 Comments:
From Eltham, they're cutting out 1 Charing Cross train (which are always packed to the rafters and beyond) and putting on 2 extra Victoria trains (which are invariably no more than 2/3 full at the very most. Ever.)
I wonder when the executives at Network South East travelled by train?
Bloody marvelous. Who the heck would want to go to Cannon Street off-peak anyway? Charing Cross is the gateway to the West End, Soho, Where I Work etc!
Morons...
Greenwich Station is in Zone 2, isn't it?
Yes - but Maze Hill, Blackheath and Westcombe Park are forced into zone three
I'll have a closer look at this later, but as far as I'm aware, the change is a consquence of the Thameslink project - the Greenwich line has to cut across all the others to reach the lines to Charing Cross. The upside (they say) will be more frequent and reliable services, but to Cannon Street.
I had the same reaction as you when the Charing Cross trains were first cut back in around 2000 - but, in truth, trains to Cannon Street don't usually spend ten minutes queueing to get into London Bridge, and tend to be more reliable. Given the choice, I usually jump on a Cannon Street train and take the tube from there or Bank.
Oyster PAYG is due from the end of this year, says Boris. If making us go to Cannon Street is to work, then hopefully we won't have to pay a higher fare because we use trains *and* Tubes - train company shareholders may say otherwise, though...
Just so you know although off peak is a zone 1-4 travelcard, on peak you can buy a zone 1-3 at £8.60. Up 60p from last year.
As I normally cycle I can't buy a season ticket so have to cue every morning I travel. Can't wait for PAYG, partly why I now often get the boat in the mornings.
*que*
Bosselox to all of this; I've had enough.
What have we done to deserve such treatment? Why has life become SO difficult? All I want to do is eat, sleep and occasionally go to the pub; nothing more.
I plan to set up a sort of Greenwich-expat community in a foreign land, Italy perhaps, or one of those new EU states out east; the only requirements for entry being a former resident of SE London and a general despair at life in Britain as a whole.
Who's in?
It could be that Greenwich will still have some direct trains to Charing Cross. If you look at St Johns it says that they currently have no off peak trains to Charing Cross. In fact this is only true during the day most trains in the evening and all trains on a Sunday go to Charing Cross. Maybe Greenwich will be the same.
As someone who almost always travels off-peak, I'm really peeved at this decision - already there are not any trains from Charing Cross to New Cross in the morning. I've just talked to the SouthEastern customer services, who told me they have changed some services in response to customer feedback etc and this timetable is not set in stone. You can feedback via an on-line form at http://southeastern2009.go-cms.co.uk/index.php/contact_us/feedbacks/index
Was told "you just have to change at London Bridge" - and my response was that it's always a huge hassle, even if it isn't snowing to charge up and down the runways & figure out what platform you should be on, let alone if you aren't terribly mobile. Hrumph - am about to fill out a form.
I'll be joining you Rebecca - thanks for the tip. And Happy New Year!!
- and while we are on the subject of the railways - what has happened to the access from Vanburgh Hill to Maze Hill Station which the developer on the building site promised to put in?
Another interesting thing is the huge hike in the number of peak trains - this can't be bad.
When I renewed my annual season ticket from Maze Hill last week (up to £712 from £570, a 25% increase, even allowing that £712 was the 2008 price) I was told I could also now travel via Blackheath. I was sure there would be a catch, and low and behold, here it is.
Yes changing platforms at London Bridge is not that hard, but try doing it with a buggy. Or, I imagine, in a wheelchair.
Reliability is rarely a concern in off peak periods, and particularly not at weekends.
I'm off to that form - thanks for the heads up
uncle
the developer is selling 'dedicated access' to Maze Hill: http://www.serenpark-greenwich.co.uk/features/index.html#
which sound a little bit like you and I won't be allowed to use it.
That or estate agents' bull, and we all know they never do that.
Uncle - count me in. I vote for France myself.
Come the end of 2009 we'll have some residents living in the new Greenwich Reach development, by spring 2010 even more and late 2010 there'll be the residents newly moved into the massive 16-floor, three-block development around the Laban college off creek road.
Increasing peak capacity is a good thing, but just at the time when they're increasing it to the level it should be NOW, the peak requirement will shoot up (as will the requirements for hospitals and schools and roads, none of which are being increased or sorted by the council, pfffffffffff)
Uncle Trevor, I'm definitely with you, however I nominate Australia
These price rises are already on top of a huge rise last year (Maze Hill to London Terminals +17%). The excuse I was given then was this was getting Maze Hill in line with other stations in the zone. Surely, this adjustment only needed to be done once? Isn't there supposed to be a cap of 6% on fare increases?
Last year I was also told that the "benefit" of the new fares was that I could also travel to different stations in the zone e.g. Blackheath. Southeastern however kept this benefit a secret and didn't publicise it all.
At the time I wrote to Nick Raynesford and was told his office supported the unification of fares for the eventual introduction of the Oyster card, i.e. he couldn't be bothered to think about these huge increases we face each year for an increasingly "unattractive" (convenience & overcrowding)service.
Southeastern just said they needed to invest in the service, hence the increases.
I haven't seen any of this investment for the users of Maze Hill station. I have therefore switch to cycling.
Has Southeastern bought share in Thames Clippers? Perhaps this is a cunning plan to push more people onto the ferries.
Damn, just when I thought I had a nice, quiet boat ride to work...
I will be quite glad if they replace the early trains to Charing Cross with a Cannon Street service. Usually the Charing Cross train sits outside London bridge whilst the later Canon Street service coasts past and 98% of the passangers on the Charing Cross service miss their connection.
1. A Cannon Street service is useless for me at any time of the day or night. My work and socialising is in the West End, some two miles West. It's ludicrous and adds expense my having to get a underground or bus to where I want to get when there's a line that goes there directly.
2. 100%. 100% bloody percecnt!! That's how much my fare into town has now increased since I moved to my current address six years ago. 100% effin' percent!!
Did anyone see the article in yesterday's Evening Standard which said that the Mayor's looking at suggestions put forward by a campaign group that certain stations (including Maze Hill) should be re-classified as Zone 2? That would certainly make things easier on the pocket, and makes a lot of sense. I've always thought Maze Hill was unfairly classified as a Zone 3 station.
It might be worth dropping the Mayor an email if you're in favour of it.
Just to add to the comments below about Maze Hill/Blackheath.
My December-renewed annual rail gold card now says it is valid between "Maze Hill and London Terminals, route also available at AAA BLACKHEATH".
No, SouthEastern didn't advertise this fact very well. In the end, I extracted it from them via their phone line. Rather confusingly, they appeared to think it means that I can travel to Blackheath but not from Blackheath. Eh?
Anyway, it's better than nothing, although I do rather miss the days when the annual ticket cost about £400.
I live in Maze Hill and I buy a monthly Zone 1-3 travelcard on my Oyster which is valid for overland. So as far as I'm concerned you can use Oyster (as long as it's not pay as you go).
I'm dismayed that they're cutting charing cross trains. I'll have to move somewhere else by then!
How annoying! I live in Westcombe Park and occasionally take the train to London - as others said, I am used to changing in London Bridge during the day, but really like to have a direct train home from Charing Cross after a night out. I shall complain in the link provided (thank you Rebecca!).
Sadly, this is exactly why we have started driving into central London on the weekends. Doesn't take much longer than changing buses and trains 3/4 times and costs less if it's the two of you! Madness!
I thought Thameslink was looking unlikely?
It is stupid that North Greenwich is Zone 2 but Westcombe park and Maze Hill are not! with the amount of downtime for the jubliee at weekends then it is not much fun getting out of greenwich. The Thames Clipper has much improved but that took investment from a business.
Cannon Street is frustrating - it took over an hour to get from greenwich to charing cross on Saturday, due to changing of trains.
A few years back the tube cut the zone 2 only pass - so you have to buy either a zone 2-3 or a zone 1-2 to travel from Greenwich to Canary Wharf.
They did this by stealth as it meant a massive increases for anyone in this catergory and did not publicise it.
Also passengers travelling to North Greenwich via Tunnel avenue on bus will have noticed the impact of not having the 108. After waiting often up to 20 minutes for a bus the 422 bus drivers "regulate the bus service" which means they sit at bus stops, often for 5 minutes at a time, as they say that they can not arrive early. I call this method "frustrating" the bus service. If you are really unfortunate you get this on the way to work and on the way back from work you catch the traffic stuck leaving or dropping off people at the 02.
Um... all you have to do to get to charing cross is cross over the platform onto platform 6 and there is almost always a train waiting....
It's not difficult!
Yes, Anonymous, it IS difficult unless you are fully able bodied, with no baggage, kids or elderly people in your group and able to walk/run up and down platforms, stairs and ramps. London Bridge and Cannon Street stations are less safe to be alone in late at night. Moreover, the information boards at LB are much worse than CX which makes it much more difficult to get to the right platform in good time (I'm thinking mainly of outbound journeys obviously).
Manily though, people seem to be angry because a system that has worked fairly well (although sometimes poorly) has just been cut completely, and whereas Charing Cross is a useful central station for most work and pleasure travel, Cannon Street is a ghosttown and the huge majority of my journeys will now be longer, more inconvenient, less safe, less comfortable and more expensive.
Time to finally buy that car.
I just looked at the timetables and I can still see off-peak services Greenwich to Charing Cross. Have they changed their plans?
Phantom - is it time to do a post to update people on what's goingon?
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