Does This Stink? Or Not?
Folks, a curious comment on an old post has got me intrigued and I can't work out what I think about it.
From an internet search I cannot find out anything as to whether this is true (how come the sort of info I want to find out never seems to be on the 'all-knowing' net?) I've checked the business pages, the company's web page, the lot - but no dice so far.
The anonymous commenter (so I can't even email to get more details) is an employee at the factory that is, for most of us, the bane of our lives. The factory that dispenses all manner of bizarre odours from tall chimneys and giant vats. I am told it's Amylum UK, a subsidiary of Tate & Lyle, a refinery that makes ingredients for all manner of unlikely products, and we have moaned long and hard about the frankly weird smells that emanate from behind those high walls. Sometimes they're yeasty and malty - and not bad at all; other times they are frankly eye-wateringly horrid. It must depend on whatever they're refining that day and the wind direction.
So. Onto the comment. This employee told me that they were told yesterday that the plant is to close - that it will be gone completely by this time next year. I have no reason to think that anyone would make up something so random, so I'm running with it being true.
First thought. Fantastic - no more disgusting smells hanging over Greenwich on a still day.
Second thought. The poor sods who work there are just about to lose their jobs, in a climate that by next year could be a hell of a lot worse. I can't imagine they'll all want to go and work at Happy Land in the O2.
Third Thought. What does this mean for Greenwich as a whole? Its industrial history may not be the most glamorous part of Greenwich's past, but it is an important and a relevant one. Greenwich as a place of making things is, perhaps, a microcosm of Britain as a whole. Our industry is going, being replaced by services. Our individual shops are going, being replaced by chains and estate agents. Our places of work are going, being replaced by luxury flats. Our docks are going, being replaced by more luxury flats. Our pubs are going, being replaced by - well, you guessed.
Are we ok with that? Are we happy that we are turning into a dormitory and/or a tourist trap?
I was under the impression that that particular slot of land, along the west side of the peninsula, had been set aside as for industrial/dock/port use. Is this to change? Will the closure of Amlyum see the opening of a new business (hopefully less smelly - just because it's industrial doesn't mean it has to stink...) or will it become another 'riverside opportunity' with 'fantastic views' for the developers?
I should be delighted at this comment. I'm not convinced I am...
What do you think?
From an internet search I cannot find out anything as to whether this is true (how come the sort of info I want to find out never seems to be on the 'all-knowing' net?) I've checked the business pages, the company's web page, the lot - but no dice so far.
The anonymous commenter (so I can't even email to get more details) is an employee at the factory that is, for most of us, the bane of our lives. The factory that dispenses all manner of bizarre odours from tall chimneys and giant vats. I am told it's Amylum UK, a subsidiary of Tate & Lyle, a refinery that makes ingredients for all manner of unlikely products, and we have moaned long and hard about the frankly weird smells that emanate from behind those high walls. Sometimes they're yeasty and malty - and not bad at all; other times they are frankly eye-wateringly horrid. It must depend on whatever they're refining that day and the wind direction.
So. Onto the comment. This employee told me that they were told yesterday that the plant is to close - that it will be gone completely by this time next year. I have no reason to think that anyone would make up something so random, so I'm running with it being true.
First thought. Fantastic - no more disgusting smells hanging over Greenwich on a still day.
Second thought. The poor sods who work there are just about to lose their jobs, in a climate that by next year could be a hell of a lot worse. I can't imagine they'll all want to go and work at Happy Land in the O2.
Third Thought. What does this mean for Greenwich as a whole? Its industrial history may not be the most glamorous part of Greenwich's past, but it is an important and a relevant one. Greenwich as a place of making things is, perhaps, a microcosm of Britain as a whole. Our industry is going, being replaced by services. Our individual shops are going, being replaced by chains and estate agents. Our places of work are going, being replaced by luxury flats. Our docks are going, being replaced by more luxury flats. Our pubs are going, being replaced by - well, you guessed.
Are we ok with that? Are we happy that we are turning into a dormitory and/or a tourist trap?
I was under the impression that that particular slot of land, along the west side of the peninsula, had been set aside as for industrial/dock/port use. Is this to change? Will the closure of Amlyum see the opening of a new business (hopefully less smelly - just because it's industrial doesn't mean it has to stink...) or will it become another 'riverside opportunity' with 'fantastic views' for the developers?
I should be delighted at this comment. I'm not convinced I am...
What do you think?
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
08:20
19 Comments:
I'm not sure the closure of a very smelly factory is the place to start a 'Keep Greenwich Industrial' campaign.
Personally, I find this debate difficult. We moved here 6 years ago becuase we liked the area, and can hardly blame other people for wanting to do the same. At the same time, I worry about what that sort of change does to an area.
While we are talking about nasty niffs, behind the luxury flats (!)next to the Cutty Sark pub, there is permanently a most foul odour, day or night, rain or shine. What are those people putting down their drains?
Will - The only possible source of the 'most foul order' you refer to is the bakery (Rhodes - who have just opened a retail outlet in Greenwich). I guess smells are subjective.
The stink I wont miss,when we lived on the Isle of Dogs it was so unbearable we had to shut our windows and even then it seemed to linger in ones nose. I still get a faint trace of it in West Greenwich although that may be the sewers outside Noodle Time.
I agree that what we dont want is a ribbon developement of luxury flats along the river front and we as a community need to look at more creative ways of recycling existing buildings. Perhaps an industrial museum with teaching facilities, or maybe something to do with the Arts, I am not sure , but the stink? Good riddence.
With Lovells Wharf and the moving of the 'ShipYard' at Pipers Wharf, then the deveploment of the Deep Water Terminal, I think it's only a matter of time before the whole of that side of the river becomes 'Luxury Flats'.
I agree witrh the Phantom, it's a pity that the Industrial Heritage is so far behind the 'Cultural' and treated so badly. Industry=Employment. Just how many Estate Agents do we need in Greeenwich before they all sell every scrap of land and move on? How many baby sitters for dearest Tarquin and Felicity? (Apologies to anyone with those names, it must be hell for you.....LOL) The answer is not as many as are currently employed in that area.
But then I hear the screams of 'Progress' and 'move on'. As Will mentioned, we all live here because we like the area, warts and all........
I think the smell near the cutty sark is because of a sewer gas venting pipe which can be seen just up the road from it. At least that's what i recall the big green tube sticking up next to the road being. Follow your nose and i'm sure you'll find it.
This is a difficult debate, because we live in a free market economy which dictates more or less everything in our lives, one way or another.
Firstly, no-one will miss the smell, but it used to be much worse - in the early 80's (when I first moved to the area) you could smell it up on Blackheath, and even sometimes in Woolwich, depending on the wind. The refinery has obviously made efforts over the years to contain the problem.
Secondly, the loss of jobs (real, manufacturing jobs) is a terrible thing, and for a major job-creator to be replaced by flats that only very rich people can afford even worse. But that's probably what will happen.
What we are all worried about here is that little by little the quirky, less than perfect place we love is being changed, very rarely for the better. The eccentic, grand yet shabby nature of the place, its individuality, is being eroded, drip by drip. When I first moved to my current abode on 1981, Deptford Creek was lined with working wharves and a power station. Now there is just one wharf left, and that seems to be under threat. Very soon it will all be luxury (ie unaffordable to nearly everyone) flats - a rich persons' ghetto with no community at all. There are now only little pockets of the Greenwich that I moved to left - the covered market was still a wholesale fruit and veg market with proper market pubs. The site to the right of Peter De Witt's cafe that is now being converted into luxury flats was a (brilliant) hardware/ironmonger shop that would sell you 6 screws in a little twist of brown paper, if 6 was all you needed. It became a Burger King, then a series of crap restaurants, and now is becoming luxury flats. Even the DLR and the Jubilee line have had their downside, helping to break down the villagey, out-of-London feel that Greenwich used to have and it's sheer character.
In the end, the world and the economy move on and things change, and there's probably not much we can do. We can't even stop the Olympics damaging a World Heritage site for three days of a sport that only rich toffs and the Royal family ever watch.
There - I've thoroughly depressed myself now.
People may want to revisit your earlier post on this subject at:- www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2007/05/peninsula-pong.html
Just did a quick bit of internet digging and couldn't find anything on the closure of the glucose refinery. However, I did discover that Tate and Lyle flogged it last year to a French company called Syral, who appear to be busy cornering the market in that sort of processing.
Doubtless the old antigallicans amongst us will rejoice in the knowledge that it is now officially a French stink!
As Rod notes, the stink used to be far worse in the 90's. I can confirm that it used to hang over East Greenwich at least as far as the park. Things improved when the then owners forked out a large sum of money on technology to reduce this.
Having grown up in a coal mining area you can keep your 'real jobs'. They dont pay very well and the hours are crappy. Give me one of those fake jobs accross the river at Canary Wharf any day!
The loss of jobs ('real' or otherwise) is certainly not a good thing, but I suspect the de-industrialisation of the peninsula is now inevitible because of Jubilee Line, DLR, City Airport, Canary Wharf, etc - the land is simply worth more as flats (although the way house prices are going...).
I'd like to know why it is being shut - has the land been sold? Is the site uneconomic? Are they shifting production to France?
I'm no expert, but the Lassell Street Reek is much more sewer than
bakery, so I'm inclined to believe that theory. BUT, if there is a venting pipe, the gas would surely be flammable, no?
Sian has just told me about Peruvian Wharf, which is on the north bank of the Thames but which gives me a little hope that Greenwich may at least keep a little of its wharfery:
January 2007 – Planning consent rejected by Ruth Kelly
Former Tate and Lyle sugar packing plant. Required to include operating wharf. (08/05) C&P (Capital and Provident Management Ltd.) forced to amend its plans and now propos es to devote entire river frontage to wharf uses including a cement facility and passenger pier aimed at servicing the London Olympics in 2012.
Ruth Kelly rejected the development on the grounds that it breached the government’s policy of retaining wharfs on the Thames for industrial usage. Plan for 1,500 residential units also rejected (01/07)
I'm not saying we should have heavy, smelly industry there per se, but some flavour of Greenwich as a place that makes stuff would be preferable to hundreds more dinky flats IMHO.
I think the smell in Lassell Street is due to drainage problems. I used to live in the flats there and we were told Thames Water were trying to fix the problem. I think the drains can't cope with the Bakery and the flats.
Could the planning denial for Peruvian Wharf also have something to do with the Silvertown Link, which is still doing the rounds? Or am I being too cynical?
Also, isn't it nice to know that Thames Water are sorting the problem with the sewers? Can't cope with a Bakery and general 'stuff' but should be able to cope with Bakery and general stuff AND another four blocks of flats!!! How's that for foresight???
Didn't I hear once that the malty smell was from the Meantime brewery (the one which supplied the beers of the Greenwich Union)?
The malty smell that we produced when we mash in is a Wheatabix/Maltesers kind of smell, and not at all unpleasant, so I'm not on the defensive here, but it is not a smell that carries very far at all, so you definitely won't be smelling it in Greenwich. I can't even smell it 500 yards away at the bus stop when I've finished my shift.
Equally, I'm sure that Rhodes Bakery aren't producing any really unpleasant powerful smells - brewing and baking are akin in some ways and just don't create the sort of smells being discussed here. That really penetrating acrid sort of smell which we all dislike is fron the Refinery, which in the old days (the 80's!) used to be referred to by South East London folk as the Sugar Factory.
Rod writes: " we live in a free market economy which dictates ...".
What a telling contradiciton in terms!
I sent a note to the Tate & Lyle press office after reading your posting.
Alas, they have still not bothered to reply, so I am not sure if that is disdain for "bloggers" or if they are worried that news has leaked early.
the reason that Tate and Lyle don't answer is probably because they sold the factory over a year ago now - and it is owned by a French farming Co-op - as you will see from the name on it!
Despite being the the original poser (as it were) of the question about the pong I I feel a bit bad now. Very sad to see any business closing down in the current climate. Especially as it wasn't ALL that bad and clearly wasn't a danger to health...
Hi just had it straight from the horses mouth the factory is closing and moving to france,(ok with regards to the pong cos they pong alrady LOL)however no mention of what is actually happening to the site itself,I should imagine there is several very hungry property sharks lurking in the background waiting to pounce & turn what is all be it a smeely one part of greenwich history into a hype up syked up playground !!!!
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