Flat Rates
A few months ago, Henri sent me some wonderful pictures of her wedding - you can enjoy one or two of them on my weddings and events section. But now she writes with the classic problem that tends to follow weddings around. She writes:
"The husband and I are looking to leave New Cross when our lease runs out at the end of September, and we really, really want to re-relocate to Greenwich. It's handy for me, being able to roll out of bed and nip off to uni, and a convenient push-off point for him to travel to wherever he may be working then. The problem is we're having a hard time identifying areas of Greenwich (town or borough) where we can find a reasonable compromise of size, cost, and safety.
We're looking for something with 1 or 2 bedrooms, house or flat, for under £900 a month, and not down some dark, seedy alley miles away from any transport. Or Police. Do you have any advice? Inside info?
We don't mind something a bit shabby, if it means we get a few extra feet for our money (I much prefer a nice high Victorian ceiling over sunken lights in my bathtub and an oven that speaks to me) but we'd rather not live on the 16th floor of a scary council estate either. Know any areas we should be looking at?
Plumstead seems to have a nice range of shabby but affordable and slightly more spacious housing (although it's a bit close to the in-laws in Abbey Wood to be my pick of the Greenwich area) but apart from that and....Thamesmead *shudder* we're having trouble finding anywhere that isn't full of 'state of the art' and 'luxury', which seems to be code for 'shoebox with spotlights'."
The Phantom sympathises. However swish the new housing may be round here it tends to be a) tiny and b) stupidly expensive. I've never been able to work out why they call some of it "affordable" - I can't imagine many people on lower incomes actually being able to manage even the small part that they are expected to stump up at those prices. Following your code for 'Luxury' as equalling "shoebox with spotlights" I'd say "affordable" translates as "shoebox without spotlights hidden behind the bins..."
I have to put my hands up here - I don't really keep much of an eye on prices. I am sure that people here have a better idea than me but hey - it's my blog, so I'm going to have my two-penn'orth...
To be honest I suspect that Greenwich Central may be a bit scary for that sort of money (though it's always worth just checking - you never know what you may be able to find and with this credit-crunch thing going on you may find a landlord who would rather do a good price than be forced to sell up.) East Greenwich is worth a look - and ideally situated for amenities - the tube, train and sundry shops - but even that seems to be getting a bit pricey these days.
Since your husband (does he actually have a name???) has to commute, you need to be nearish the railway - though of course there are two good lines - the one that goes through Blackheath and the one that goes via Maze Hill.
I'm a big fan of Charlton. It's on both railway lines, which means you get a better selection of trains, and it has some great housing stock. You'll have to pick your area for safety purposes - but I think it's an underrated area. Sadly I'm not alone, and prices have been creeping up recently.
Ditto Woolwich. That's going to explode in the next few years - if I were buying, I'd be tempted to look there - it's got good transport links (soon to be fantastic) a shopping centre that may look tatty but has a solid, provincial feel, and it's a short distance to some excellent open spaces. Oh - and it has a very good Chinese restaurant.
If you want to get lots for your money, Plumstead isn't a bad choice at all - though tradition seems to dictate that you may to be more careful to find a safe area. I don't know too much about most of Plumstead to tell the truth - but I have friends who live there and none of them has been mugged in over 18 years. And it has the bonus of being on the railway and near to countryside. Some bits, especially around the common, are really rather grand.
Which brings me onto Shooters Hill. A little bit more out of the way, but still pretty nice, and close to lots of countryside and open air. I understand the Highwayman problem has abated in the last hundred years.
As we were talking a few days ago the Royal Herbert development is really rather cool. Don't bother trying to get the ex-water tower though - I think last time it was up they wanted a million for it. I have no idea whether they actually got it. I think the bit around it is rather charming, though it feels a bit remote.
Eltham's a funny one. it goes from the extremely old and posh right through to some truly grotty bits. It's a little bit out of the way so it may come up cheaper (as long as you're not after that amazing Tudor place next to the palace...) but I'm really into dodgy territory here - I really don't know.
One last thing. You shudder at Thamesmead, but I know several people who live there who are fiercely defensive of it. They love the fact that they have modern houses with lots of room and gardens for their kids to play in at prices they could never afford elsewhere.
Last time I was there (I was re-visiting the fabulous Crossness Engines - which if you haven't ever seen you must asap) they were building some very nice-looking flats on the river. I can't imagine they will be as pricey as anywhere upstream. I wouldn't count on the mythical "Waterfront Transit System" (read "bus") coming into service any time soon though.
I've yabbered on enough. Time to hand over to people who may actually have some answers to your questions...
"The husband and I are looking to leave New Cross when our lease runs out at the end of September, and we really, really want to re-relocate to Greenwich. It's handy for me, being able to roll out of bed and nip off to uni, and a convenient push-off point for him to travel to wherever he may be working then. The problem is we're having a hard time identifying areas of Greenwich (town or borough) where we can find a reasonable compromise of size, cost, and safety.
We're looking for something with 1 or 2 bedrooms, house or flat, for under £900 a month, and not down some dark, seedy alley miles away from any transport. Or Police. Do you have any advice? Inside info?
We don't mind something a bit shabby, if it means we get a few extra feet for our money (I much prefer a nice high Victorian ceiling over sunken lights in my bathtub and an oven that speaks to me) but we'd rather not live on the 16th floor of a scary council estate either. Know any areas we should be looking at?
Plumstead seems to have a nice range of shabby but affordable and slightly more spacious housing (although it's a bit close to the in-laws in Abbey Wood to be my pick of the Greenwich area) but apart from that and....Thamesmead *shudder* we're having trouble finding anywhere that isn't full of 'state of the art' and 'luxury', which seems to be code for 'shoebox with spotlights'."
The Phantom sympathises. However swish the new housing may be round here it tends to be a) tiny and b) stupidly expensive. I've never been able to work out why they call some of it "affordable" - I can't imagine many people on lower incomes actually being able to manage even the small part that they are expected to stump up at those prices. Following your code for 'Luxury' as equalling "shoebox with spotlights" I'd say "affordable" translates as "shoebox without spotlights hidden behind the bins..."
I have to put my hands up here - I don't really keep much of an eye on prices. I am sure that people here have a better idea than me but hey - it's my blog, so I'm going to have my two-penn'orth...
To be honest I suspect that Greenwich Central may be a bit scary for that sort of money (though it's always worth just checking - you never know what you may be able to find and with this credit-crunch thing going on you may find a landlord who would rather do a good price than be forced to sell up.) East Greenwich is worth a look - and ideally situated for amenities - the tube, train and sundry shops - but even that seems to be getting a bit pricey these days.
Since your husband (does he actually have a name???) has to commute, you need to be nearish the railway - though of course there are two good lines - the one that goes through Blackheath and the one that goes via Maze Hill.
I'm a big fan of Charlton. It's on both railway lines, which means you get a better selection of trains, and it has some great housing stock. You'll have to pick your area for safety purposes - but I think it's an underrated area. Sadly I'm not alone, and prices have been creeping up recently.
Ditto Woolwich. That's going to explode in the next few years - if I were buying, I'd be tempted to look there - it's got good transport links (soon to be fantastic) a shopping centre that may look tatty but has a solid, provincial feel, and it's a short distance to some excellent open spaces. Oh - and it has a very good Chinese restaurant.
If you want to get lots for your money, Plumstead isn't a bad choice at all - though tradition seems to dictate that you may to be more careful to find a safe area. I don't know too much about most of Plumstead to tell the truth - but I have friends who live there and none of them has been mugged in over 18 years. And it has the bonus of being on the railway and near to countryside. Some bits, especially around the common, are really rather grand.
Which brings me onto Shooters Hill. A little bit more out of the way, but still pretty nice, and close to lots of countryside and open air. I understand the Highwayman problem has abated in the last hundred years.
As we were talking a few days ago the Royal Herbert development is really rather cool. Don't bother trying to get the ex-water tower though - I think last time it was up they wanted a million for it. I have no idea whether they actually got it. I think the bit around it is rather charming, though it feels a bit remote.
Eltham's a funny one. it goes from the extremely old and posh right through to some truly grotty bits. It's a little bit out of the way so it may come up cheaper (as long as you're not after that amazing Tudor place next to the palace...) but I'm really into dodgy territory here - I really don't know.
One last thing. You shudder at Thamesmead, but I know several people who live there who are fiercely defensive of it. They love the fact that they have modern houses with lots of room and gardens for their kids to play in at prices they could never afford elsewhere.
Last time I was there (I was re-visiting the fabulous Crossness Engines - which if you haven't ever seen you must asap) they were building some very nice-looking flats on the river. I can't imagine they will be as pricey as anywhere upstream. I wouldn't count on the mythical "Waterfront Transit System" (read "bus") coming into service any time soon though.
I've yabbered on enough. Time to hand over to people who may actually have some answers to your questions...
Labels: Ask The Phantom
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
08:08
18 Comments:
Take a look at Casterbridge Road in Blackheath: it's located on a small council enclave in one corner of the wonderful Cator Estate. There are brick built flats with large balconies surrounding a large pond and big trees. Two bed flats rent for around £900-950, and there was recently a one bed flat selling for £165,000. It's very quiet (apart from the ducks and geese) and a 12 minute walk from Blackheath Station.
I would recommend the Crossfields estate in Deptford - the flats there are surprisingly spacious and the 'estate' has some nice green areas and a strong community feel. You are a few mins walk from Deptford train station, and only about 10 mins from Greenwich town centre. What's more you are within easy reach of the market, shops, leisure centre (when it finally reopens!) cafes. Local estate agent Cannon Kallar currentlyt has a two-bed in Wilshaw House for rent at £196 a month.
I can recommend Westcombe Park (south of the Woolwich Road and west of the A102). It feels surprisingly peaceful and safe, much more so than Charlton, and it tends to be overlooked in favour of Maze Hill and Blackheath, both of which are a bit pricier. I know this because we weren't aware of its existence until friends drove us around it. We ended up moving there and have been happy. There's a lovely park (the Pleasaunce) and it's only 15 minutes by train into the smoke.
Greenwich South street, one bedroom conversion flat, 950 pcm. On with James Johnston. Bit of a busy road but very handy for DLR, overland and local pubs and what not. If you wait couple of months supply of rental properties is expected to surge and you may get more for your cash.
Wonderful suggestions so far, which I'll be doing more research into.
Hubby does indeed have a name, Mike. Trains aren't a huge necessity, as he drives, and as long as he doesn't get a job somewhere central he'd rather drive to work (he's SUCH a baby about public transport).
I do love Westcombe park (until this month, hub worked there) but isn't it really rather pricey? It'd be extremely convenient for me, but cost remains, as always, the most restrictive issue.
Thank you so much, Phantom and Phantomites, I hope as the day progresses I get lots more juicy inside knowledge to check out. GP is so much more useful than propertyfinder.com!
I would keep looking in central Greenwich - as Anon said, there are places available, and I've been looking for my sister who is also moving to the area soon, and there have been a few. There are normally quite a few on Blackheath Rd - so at the Deptford area - it's also quite noisy, but good location and lovely old building with tall ceiling.
Alternatively, it's a bit rabbit hutch like, but I did see a 1 bed flat for rent in the Norman Rd development (rubicon) for £950 a month - at least it's brand new and you know what you're getting. We moved into a brand new flat for the six months we needed to rent before our house came through and it was GOD SEND! Nothing at ALL to worry about! Now we have a 100 year old house and I love it, but it's a nightmare!
Also, don't forget, always look at stuff just outside of your price bracket - they will often take an offer!
Finally, my other sister recently moved into a flat in Greenwich just at the end Ashburnham Place, and it's gorgeous, and admittedly a bit out of your bracket, but I think there are varying size flats in the building - it's normally for short lets, but they're not managing to let them out, so they (Galliard) are now renting them out for year lets etc.
Good Luck!
I lived in Plumstead for a year in 2007 and it certainly was good value for money. We had a 2 bedroom Victorian conversion with 3 reception rooms all for £750 a month! And, when we viewed it, thought that it was an easy jaunt into Greenwich (where I had lived before).
The only problem was that while we loved the house we just didn't enjoy living in Plumstead. It was very hard to get involved with the community and there was no where to go - no coffee shops or places to potter around. In the end we ended up getting into the car and driving off for the day and spending more money!
Now we live in Blackheath, and while the rent is much more we actually have less outgoings because we mooch around and have so much on our doorstep. We don't regret the rent increase at all. It's a much better quality of life, which I think you need to consider - which is why I think Deptford is a great compromise!!
Bit of a ramble but I feel quite passionate about this issue!
henri, as others have said, do check out Deptford, which has much of the heritage of Greenwich, without the attendant costs, and is just a short walk away. I've seen houses in Albery st, a Georgian gem, up for rental at a fraction of Greenwich houses. Also Blackheath Road, while noisy due to traffic, is close to Greenwich and has a good feel.
But on the subject of traffic, please tell hubby to leave the car parked. We already have too many commuters, inevitably alone in their vehicle, clogging the roads, jumping red lights, and contributing pollution here. Ludicrous, when there are pretty good transport links.
Eltham could be worth a look. There is some good housing stock in the area east of the station, bounded by the High Street and Rochester Way and over towards Glenesk Road, although I'm not sure on the extent of rental availability or prices.
There are good parks, including the delightful Well Hall Pleasaunce, decent local facilities (including new council library, pool and leisure centre)and a few interesting individual shops. London Bridge is less than 20 mins and Blackheath less than 10 mins away by train, buses to Greenwich and Bexleyheath, and easy access to the A2 or A20 to get into or out of town by car.
I live in Plumstead just by the common and it is definitely good value for money. Having lived here for 2 years I was initally a bit iffy about the area and agree that we do do the majority of our drinking in Blackheath but it's only a £12 cab ride away. I am friends with 3 couples in my street - all lovely nice young professionals like us and perhaps they types that you may not associate with Plumstead, but through them I have also met other lovely Plumsteadites and also know my neighbours really well. The other advantage is that because you can probably afford a house over a flat you will have lots of room to put people up and have them over for dinner, rather than going out!
The hill up to the common is a bit of a killer, but once you get over that there are some lovely quiet streets around the common with nice houses, the overwhelming majority of which are well kept as it is a real family area...
Yes, Henri, tell Mike that he's all grown up now and that public transport isn't a big deal. Tempt him onto it slowly, perhaps - day trips and evenings out. He really does need to get out of that car as a daily thing.
I hardly use mine at all these days. And I NEVER use it if there's an even halfway decent alternative. The way I see it is if we're all sensible about car use,driving only when we really have to, then we can all use cars for longer.
He's a married man, for heaven's sake. Surely a tube or a bus can't be THAT scary?
It's all about Maze Hill! The lower end, nearer the Arches, not nearer Co-op, which has got surprisingly full of teen groups and drunks recently, which is a shame.
Maybe I have a bad view on it, but working in Plumstead/Woolwich and hearing some of the stuff that goes on there in my line of work, I wouldn't say it was the best place to feel safe...
Paul & Phantom: I do get what you're saying about the car, trust me, I get it, and I agree. It's slightly more complicated than he just doesn't 'like' buses and tubes, but I'd really rather not go into it all here. If you really feel the need to know the reasons why it's better for him to drive, by all means, e-mail me. He doesn't use it for every single journey he makes anywhere at all, and he's a conscientious and careful driver. I don't think it's fair or mature of you (Paul) to assume he goes jumping red lights and driving like a lunatic.
Again, thank you all for all the help, and do keep the suggestions coming. I've found a couple of places I never would have thought to look at before, and have been trying to scope out all the hidden gems I'm positive are lurking around the market somewhere. It's looking more and more like we're going to be in Erith/Plumstead/Thamesmead, as they seem to be the cheaper area's on offer right now.
You're right Henrietta - and no - I really don't need to know personal circumstances.
I still think East Greenwich is worth a look - the bit that has been referred to as Westcombe Park. I believe Westcombe Park Proper only lives south of the railway line; north is still East Greenwich. Maybe someone can confrim that.
NO aspersions on your husband's driving, Henri - you should just try crossing the road with kids around here, given the number of drivers enraged by the traffic jams (and permanent roadworks). Good luck with the move.
I recently moved to Deptford (Near Deptford Park) from Greenwich and I was a little nervous about it but couldn’t afford to buy in Greenwich - I've bought a 1 bed spacious Victorian flat in a blocked off street so its quiet, the neighbours are UBER friendly - a mix of African, Chinese, Caribbean and British and we all rock along nicely. Its close to both Deptford high street = great shops for mooching, Deptford station or the other way - Canada water for jubilee line and the buses are great – free parking along most of the streets, reasonable council tax and a lot of history and artists in the area... check it out!
Check out Gumtree,
and remember to tick the private landlord box, theres lots of lovely places without the agency fees,
also there is a couple of newsagents in central greenwich which always have a few adds up in the window
hello
I have lived in plumstead and east greenwich (several years in each). although plumstead seems to have a bit of a reputation (because of its proximity to woolwich I think), the dinky victorian houses up at the common are lovely and usually have original features - they come in at about £750 a month at the moment. we did admittedly do most of our socialising in greenwich but usually took the car or a taxi home - takes 10 mins. we were never burgled or mugged or anything like that and had friendly family neighbours. by contrast, living in east greenwich in a supposedly desirable street, our car has been broken into 3 times, we have had an attempted burglary, several drunks from nearby william pub looking through the window and an ever increasing number of gangs of youths swearing up and down the street late into the night! rant over! If area is not so much of an issue and price is a big consideration then I would pick plumstead over any of the other greenwich areas.
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