Greenwich Farmers' Market
Yes, you read that right.
Cheryl Cohen of the Blackheath Farmers' Market has sent me this, asking for your opinions. She writes:
We've been approached by the town centre manager in Greenwich to open a weekly Saturday farmers' market on Cutty Sark Gardens. I would love some feedback on this idea. I've suggested a Saturday so as not to clash with Blackheath. The last thing we want is to take business away from Blackheath Village on a Sunday, but I feel sure that there's room for Greenwich to have its own market to help keep local people shopping in the neighbourhood and in turn, support your local shops. Would people from East Greenwich, Charlton, Woolwich or Depford attend? Please feel free to post something about this - I'd love as much feedback as possible. If you know of any community or residents associations/groups to pass this onto please feel free.
The Phantom Replies:
Mmm. A farmers' market in Greenwich would be well-received, I'm sure. I'm not totally convinced about Cutty Sark Gardens though. You'd certainly get some good custom there, especially on a Saturday when all the tourists are there. But it's quite windswept on occasion, and sited in right in the middle, puts you directly in competition with The Creaky Shed, Drings, The Fishmonger and The Cheeseboard, not to mention the M&S next door.
Have you considered moving a little further east? If I'm totally honest, I don't know quite where - the Forum is a bit small - but there must be a good space somewhere. Over the east side, there's only really the other branch of the Fishmonger to worry about, food-wise. Since the much-lamented demise of the fruit & veg stall last year, it's been supermarkets or nothing, really (there's the odd shop that specialises in ethic-y food, but I miss the fruit & veg. There are literally hundreds of new swanky (and otherwise) flats being built on the East side just now, and virtually no food shops to support them. The new East Greenwich Traders Association is doing its best, but Trafalgar Road, apart from the odd glorious exception, is still a sorry sight.
What does everyone else think?
Cheryl Cohen of the Blackheath Farmers' Market has sent me this, asking for your opinions. She writes:
We've been approached by the town centre manager in Greenwich to open a weekly Saturday farmers' market on Cutty Sark Gardens. I would love some feedback on this idea. I've suggested a Saturday so as not to clash with Blackheath. The last thing we want is to take business away from Blackheath Village on a Sunday, but I feel sure that there's room for Greenwich to have its own market to help keep local people shopping in the neighbourhood and in turn, support your local shops. Would people from East Greenwich, Charlton, Woolwich or Depford attend? Please feel free to post something about this - I'd love as much feedback as possible. If you know of any community or residents associations/groups to pass this onto please feel free.
The Phantom Replies:
Mmm. A farmers' market in Greenwich would be well-received, I'm sure. I'm not totally convinced about Cutty Sark Gardens though. You'd certainly get some good custom there, especially on a Saturday when all the tourists are there. But it's quite windswept on occasion, and sited in right in the middle, puts you directly in competition with The Creaky Shed, Drings, The Fishmonger and The Cheeseboard, not to mention the M&S next door.
Have you considered moving a little further east? If I'm totally honest, I don't know quite where - the Forum is a bit small - but there must be a good space somewhere. Over the east side, there's only really the other branch of the Fishmonger to worry about, food-wise. Since the much-lamented demise of the fruit & veg stall last year, it's been supermarkets or nothing, really (there's the odd shop that specialises in ethic-y food, but I miss the fruit & veg. There are literally hundreds of new swanky (and otherwise) flats being built on the East side just now, and virtually no food shops to support them. The new East Greenwich Traders Association is doing its best, but Trafalgar Road, apart from the odd glorious exception, is still a sorry sight.
What does everyone else think?
Labels: Debates
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
16:34
27 Comments:
I think its a fantastic idea. I'd love to see a farmers market in Greenwich, I've not made it to the one in Blackheath yet but I'm a big fan of the in practice. What about chatting to the foundations and using the grounds of the RNH for it? Great setting for it in my opinion.
I agree Cutty Sark gardens are too windswept - see how the French market is turned into a miserable affair when the weather turns nasty. However, even as an East Greenwich resident myself, I don't think it would be worthwhile situated there; Trafalgar Road is still too grim for the average West Greenwich resident to venture along - they'd just wait a day and go to Blackheath. Competition shouldn't be an issue with the existing shops; it isn't in Blackheath. Location is the tricky part; RNH sure is a nice spot, but can still get windy. How about a rearangement of the Village Market?
How about a farmers market in East Greenwich pleasaunce, a delightful setting away from the main drag.
I'm not sure about the scale of these things, but what about the public space by the river between the power station and the Cutty Sark Pub? I imagine it doesn't quite rival Cutty Sark Gardens for walk-by trade, but it's a lovely setting...
Great idea though - we'd definitely make use of it, wherever it were, especially if it were on a Saturday.
What happened to the Farmers market that was once a month next to St Joseph's Church in East Greenwich? It's not used for anything else and it's opposite what will be the new shopping and housing site (the old hospital site). Perfect spot if you ask me.
MJ
I think its brillian idea, but the location needs to be good to attract enough customers it to be viable for the traders. I think the road through the park is closed on Saturday? What about the beginning of that road just behind the gates at Greenwich end?
Peaceful location from cars, not so windy, perfect for buying something for home or for picnic and lots of people passing buy anyway.
Oh, a farmers market in Greenwich? Yes please, an excellent idea. I'd prefer somewhere near the Deptford end of Greenwich rather than East Greenwich (for completely sefish reasons!)
I would DEFINITELY attend. I only have a bike for transport, and I find trekking up to Blackheath a bit of an epic endeavour, especially when it's very windy up there on the heath, which is, erm, all the time, then.
I was pleased to see, from the bus home last night, that there is a farmers' market in Deptford Park on Sunday and I shall be off to that tomorrow, since it won't involve steep hills and being battered by the elements King Lear-style. But if there was one in Greenwich it would be PERFECT. Hurray!
Will it be a locals' farmers' market or a market similar to the food sold in the covered market? (cheeses, meats etc). If it's in West Greenwich and begins to also cater for the tourist trade (which inevitably it will in my opinion) this will affect what's sold in no time - so parsnips and free-range chicken will be out.
Also, aren't farmers' markets - with their slightly higher prices (the chickens in Blackheath are about £7 a pop, for example) - normally near more affluent areas?
East Greenwich - in the main - isn't affluent so I'm not sure how it would do over there. The lovely fruit and veg stall that's no longer there was just an 'ordinary' stall, which is different.
Only my opinion - but I enjoy the walk across the Heath and, even if a market was on my doorstep, I still think I'd take a stroll to Blackheath with friends.
Great idea. Agree with Phanton that if its sited in Cutty Sark Gardens Also, weather IS a big factor. Tourist thing is inevitable though.
What about asking the Park for permission to host the market at Queen Mary Gate either side of King William Walk? Nevada St and King William Walk could be temporarily closed each Saturday between set hours, surely?
As for Creeky Shed, Cheeseboard and Drings they MUST be invited to take a stall. If they decline, thats up to them.
Hey SoC - I'd pay seven pounds to pop a chicken - thanks for the fab image...
Seriously though, you may have a point. There is lots of housing going up there, but how much of that is going to be "affluent" remains to be seen. I guess much of the problem is that we just don't know yet. But East Greenwich deserves better than it's currently getting - that's for sure.
Brilliant- I'm sure I'll go, wherever they choose, though obviously I'd love East Greenwich... I can't see it happening in the RNH. Why did the one at St. Joseph's stop? I'm sure if you signposted it from Cutty Sark Gardens along you could divert passing trade...
Being new to EG, I am not sure where the previous Fruit & Vege stall was, but the dead end bit at the end of Pelton Road (by the church) would certainly get good frontage to the passing traffic of Blackwall lane and I quite like the idea of closing a road to have market (which being a dead end without too many houses shouldn't be too much of an issue). Personally, I don't like to head into West Greenwich all the time - there are just too many tourists. I would have thought that Farmers markets were more for local trade as tourists don't tend to buy the fresh stuff do they? Mind you, regardless of where it is situated, I'm sure I'd become a regular for the fresh veges to go with my Fishmonger fresh fish!! (I'm loving EG).
m&r
There was a farmers' market briefly in the school yard at Pelton Street - and it closed.
Successful businesses - customers, location, good service and a product to sell.
Not sure where it went wrong but guess at least two of the above were not present.
Agree Cutty Sark not best, but much better than East Greenwich. As someone said here (don't take it the wrong way) but there is more potential cash floating about in West Greenwich what with the higher per capita income of the residents and also the passing tourist trade. East Greenwich is full of shops like Co-op, Iceland etc - I think you would struggle up that end. Plus there are also lots of developments in the West - Greenwich Reach, Creek Road (Laban area) and Greenwich BR development.
I appreciate farmers markets are for everyone, but realistically you need to make money to ensure longevity, and a town centre location would ensure this.
It would be good in Stockwell Street on the old petrol station forecourt- the market infrastructure is there already, and the existing Sat market could do with a boost.
Nice idea, Badgeman. Sadly not a long-term goer as the whole area is, sniff, earmarked for demolition and rebuilding. Sorry you had to hear it from me...
Sorry - should have mentioned that there are a couple of threads about this:
http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2007/06/stockwell-stree-development.html
http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2007/05/stockwell-street-market.html
On Royal Hill, Greenwich has a better selection of “foodie” shops than Blackheath, which would compete with any farmers market this side of the heath. Locals are likely to stick with them because they (Greenwich-ites) take a 'use it or loose it' attitude to the Royal Hill shops, and get a very high level of personal service in return. So I think a farmers market in Greenwich could find it tough going to attract local regulars particularly as locals tend to avoid the area around the Cutty Sark at the weekend knowing they are better able to enjoy the delights of Greenwich in quieter, less tourist heavy, hours.
IMHO a market which was complementary to the Royal Hill shops (difficult - as they cover many bases) would be better sited on the car park behind the picture house to capitalise on their 'honey pot' effect. This may seem out-of-the-way compared to Cutty Sark gardens. However, join the line outside Drings, look at the volume of repeat custom in The Creeky and squeeze into the Cheeseboard on a Saturday and you will see what a strong little market they have created. Most of my neighbours and I are very loyal to these shops not least because their owners and staff live and work in the local community and help maintain Greenwich’s rare community spirit.
Oh please have a farmers market at the East Greenwich end! I'm so OVER the co-op and getting the train to Borough every week. To do it properly & give it super-green-credentials you should also insist that ALL food sold at the market was organic & free range.
Wow, thank you so much for all your comments. I'm going to direct the town centre manager to take a look, as it's his idea we locate on Cutty Sark Gardens. We're happy to invite applications from any local person or business providing that they fit in with the rules of farmers' markets. In other words, primary producers have to grow/raise/catch the food they sell. If you’re a secondary producer you need to show that you use over 50% local ingredients. I can assure you that it will be a real farmers' market (for local people!) with real food. We don't aim at the tourist trade.
Re. free range etc…To give you some examples, all the poultry and eggs would be free range or organic. We try to have a range of produce to appeal to all people and price ranges. Organic and conventional fruit and veg because not everyone can afford organic. More importantly we try to find farmers and producers from as close the market as possible. For example at Blackheath many farmers come from Kent and Sussex and other counties around London.
With regard to competition, we've noticed at many of our markets that people stay to spend money at local shops in the area which is what we want to see. It's fantastic that you have so many great food shops in central Greenwich and East Greenwich seems to have the potential to grow.
Wherever we site the market, at least we know that it will be well supported, thank you.
I'd love a weekend farmers' market up at the Standard, on that green space that is completely unused. The Standard could use a bit of regeneration (not gentrification!) and community spirit. Don't think M &S being nearby would make a difference to its success (hope not). It's sad that the Standard is so unloved.
Nice idea, Kate, but could be a bit close to the established one at Blackheath. That wouldn't preclude some other kind of market though - maybe a French one or a craft market from time to time...
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one comment I'd make is that Blackheath benefits from being in a Car Park. Once I fill up a trolley and a basket with spuds and parsnips and squashes etc I struggle to lug it home afterwards. Not very eco-friendly I know but I'd reckon most 'heavy' users will drive and park. Not something you could do at Cutty Sark Gardens...
So what is happening with this? Bit late to the party, but we'd definitely use it.
All the best
Andreas
You're not late, Andreas - nothing at all has happened. Yet. We'll see...
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