A Warning
Lorna has sent me this disturbing email:
Hi Phantom
Just wanted to pass on a warning to your readers if possible.
I was walking home from Cutty Sark DLR on saturday night with my boyfriend about 1.30am having been to a party in north london and having caught one of the last trains/DLRs home.
The town/high street was packed, and we crossed the road (over to by the Thai place and the pet accessories shop) to avoid a rowdy group of people, when a guy started a fight with a guy walking towards us. I looked back and noticed the guy who had challenged the man walking towards us, had a large empty glass bottle (a litre bottle of Smirnoff). I quickly sped up with my boyfriend to get out of the way - the next thing I know, the guys had begun fighting and the bottle was thrown - hitting me on the head.
Luckily the bottle didn't break, and I was left with only a large bump on the side of my head - the fight was carrying on, so I thought we'd better get out of the way. Typically, there were no police to be seen anywhere on high street.
I would recommend to all your readers to walk the longer way round from the station (turning left out of the DLR round by Waterstones), as this doesn't mean walking past the Weatherspoons pub where most of the 'drunken louts' hang out.
I am completely disgusted, and quite frightened that Greenwich has become so unsafe. I don't see the point in reporting this to the police - I wouldn't be able to describe the men who were fighting, or the guy who threw the bottle, and didn't want to waste my Sunday in the police station.
I think it's high time that either the police have more presence in Greenwich on a Saturday, or drinking hours in that area are lowered. During the day Greenwich is a lovely place, and week night evenings it's also fine, but Friday and Saturday nights seem to attract a completely different type of person, who are out to make trouble.
I'm also wondering if all the new housing that is springing up is meaning the town is over crowded in the evenings? I hope to have time in the near future to write to the police and the council requesting greater police presence over the weekends... but I'm not convinced this will have any effect. Let me know if you, or your readers have any other suggestions to making our streets safer...
The Phantom Replies:
This is utterly awful - and you do need to report this, Lorna - even if you couldn't recognise the thugs concerned - because the police work on statistics. So these particular louts won't get caught (though maybe they were later if it was that bad) but your experience, if reported, will add up to a bigger picture which could mean that measures are taken around that vile place.
Get better soon, Lorna, and in the meantime, folks - take care...
Hi Phantom
Just wanted to pass on a warning to your readers if possible.
I was walking home from Cutty Sark DLR on saturday night with my boyfriend about 1.30am having been to a party in north london and having caught one of the last trains/DLRs home.
The town/high street was packed, and we crossed the road (over to by the Thai place and the pet accessories shop) to avoid a rowdy group of people, when a guy started a fight with a guy walking towards us. I looked back and noticed the guy who had challenged the man walking towards us, had a large empty glass bottle (a litre bottle of Smirnoff). I quickly sped up with my boyfriend to get out of the way - the next thing I know, the guys had begun fighting and the bottle was thrown - hitting me on the head.
Luckily the bottle didn't break, and I was left with only a large bump on the side of my head - the fight was carrying on, so I thought we'd better get out of the way. Typically, there were no police to be seen anywhere on high street.
I would recommend to all your readers to walk the longer way round from the station (turning left out of the DLR round by Waterstones), as this doesn't mean walking past the Weatherspoons pub where most of the 'drunken louts' hang out.
I am completely disgusted, and quite frightened that Greenwich has become so unsafe. I don't see the point in reporting this to the police - I wouldn't be able to describe the men who were fighting, or the guy who threw the bottle, and didn't want to waste my Sunday in the police station.
I think it's high time that either the police have more presence in Greenwich on a Saturday, or drinking hours in that area are lowered. During the day Greenwich is a lovely place, and week night evenings it's also fine, but Friday and Saturday nights seem to attract a completely different type of person, who are out to make trouble.
I'm also wondering if all the new housing that is springing up is meaning the town is over crowded in the evenings? I hope to have time in the near future to write to the police and the council requesting greater police presence over the weekends... but I'm not convinced this will have any effect. Let me know if you, or your readers have any other suggestions to making our streets safer...
The Phantom Replies:
This is utterly awful - and you do need to report this, Lorna - even if you couldn't recognise the thugs concerned - because the police work on statistics. So these particular louts won't get caught (though maybe they were later if it was that bad) but your experience, if reported, will add up to a bigger picture which could mean that measures are taken around that vile place.
Get better soon, Lorna, and in the meantime, folks - take care...
Labels: News
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
16:31
19 Comments:
If you think that the anti-social behaviour is linked to a particular pub you could try asking the Council to review its licence (eg impose earlier closing times or in extremis revoke its licence altogether).
It's unlikely though that the Council would act on one person's complaint so it's probably best to try and get the police interested or possibly contact your local councillors.
That's why it's important to get this incident logged - so that it helps build a body of evidence.
Yes - you are right. I promise to report it - I guess even as a statistic it hopefully will help them put more police on the streets...
To Lorna,
Sorry to hear of your bad experience. I hope that recover soon.
To Everyone else, what about the CCTV in the Centre. Would that have not picked anything up? I thought we were supposed to be the most 'watched' City, where are the Authorities when an assault or crime is caught on camera? Is there not a control room somewhere that has people supposedly watching for 'ne'er do wells'? If not, why are the cameras even there?
To Lorna
sorry to hear of your brush with violence. I hope you report it and something is done to improve the 'presence' of Greenwich Police in the centre. Please don't let this experience colour your view of Greenwich. Greenwich is a pretty safe place to live, but I suspect most town centres at 1am on the weekend, are a magnet for drunken thuggery....
CCTV is sometimes OK for providing evidence- but don't think for one moment that anybody is actively monitoring the images from the cameras in central Greenwich or anywhere else. I remember hearing that the CCTV cameras for all the London Underground were supervised by one person.
The answer is probably better and more visible policing- but the police contingent for the entire borough on weekend evenings will be very low.
Strangely, it is probably not such a bad idea to have one or two low priced venues which act as a magnet for the yard dog end of the market- it keeps them out of other places. Unfortunately at the end of the night they will prowl, fuelled by testosterone and cheap booze.
I wonder whether the tight stewarding at 02 (which I loathe- but which probably keeps out riff raff) has helped to displace the chav leisure pound to Greenwich- hope not.
Sorry to hear that Lorna was hurt- good for her for deciding to report the incident. I hope Greenwich Police are helpful.
on CCTV cameras...
Great film called "Red Road" gave some insight into how the CCTV cameras are monitored. Another great reason to watch it, it was made by Greenwich local, Andrea Arnold who won an Oscar for her short film "Wasp" a few years back.
On Wetherspoons corner... Queued with a hundred other people to get the new Harry Potter and had a lovely time spoiled only by the drunken louts spilling out of Wetherspoons confused why we were queuing at a bookstore to watch a film. You'd think they wouldn't care much, but they got really aggressive with a few kids about it.
There is often a bad looking crowd outside Wetherspoons on Fridays and Saturdays and its because the drink they are served. I'd certainly see the value in pushing the police/ council to do something about. Wetherspoons have a very tight entry policy sometimes, but they need to do something about the people once they are inside - i.e. not let them get as drunk as they do.
This is a dreadful pub. The other month a couple of yobs were so pithed they were rolling about on Creek Road fighting. The bus just had to wait for them to get up. Shocking.
The Police have also set up "Safer Neighbourhood Teams" (SNT's)throughout London in the last year or so. They meet with the local groups every few months and set targets for what people are concerned about. If a particular pub is giving cause for concern, it could be raised here too. The Police probably know about Wetherspoons already, but discussions like this prove Lorna's was not a isolated incident.
Does anyone know who's on the SNT "Ward Panel" for Greenwich Town Centre?
Red Road is a fantastic film - do watch it. Lorna - very sorry to hear about your experience - not good at all. And as much as I understand your reason for not reporting it and spending AGES in the police station, its worth it for someone - I wish to goodness they would shut the weatherspoons down - its a constant magnet for trouble, the bouncers are rubbish and the police are never around because the rowdy van is called out to Plumpstead and Thamesmead instead - unless you want specials around and even they get called away from Greenwich to serve other areas - thats the problem, Greenwich doesnt have enough police on duty :-(
CCTV is okay but again they dont monitor it actively, it serves to be used AFTER the event. Not helpful.Generally Greenwich around that area at that time of night at the weekends is foul. And the Comedy Club (god bless it) has to put up with its fair share of problems. The local estate boys always clash with the outsiders around that area.
Take care, chose the long safe route and keep campaigning for a safer Greenwich.
a fight ? outside weatherspoons ? late on a friday night ? well I never......This is South london you know
Rochester town centre was a really nice place to be in the evening until the Wetherspoons opened. In the few months between then and me moving to London I saw fights pretty much every night, was assaulted myself (by a girl with sick down her front who thought I'd looked at her funny) all topped off by the memorable vision of a guy with blood pouring from his nose, walking along vomiting a waterfall of puke with every step.
I wouldn't go anywhere near one of those places if I didn't absolutely have to.
Just because "This is South London" and none of us are much surprised by this incident doesn't mean that we should just throw our hands up and say "well - that's all we're good for" and do nothing about it.
I almost hanker after the reopening of Mean Time on the A102M - at least it was sort of out of the way and everyone who went there seem to go precisely for the opportunity to glass each other.
No. Not really.
hmmmm just because this is South London doesnt mean we have to put up with it in Greenwich, or maybe it doesnt bother you? Well it bothers me which is why Id rather be constructive about this and try and get something done about the 'usual' outside Weatherspoons like a campaign to get it shut down for one...and two, campaign for more police so that people like Lorna dont have to watch for glass in the air. Have a bit of responsibility and care.
Thanks guys for all your lovely comments - am feeling absolutely fine. I reported the incident to the police today - apparently I'll be called in a few days if it matches up to any other reports of fights that night!!
I really agree with the Phantom and the Anonymous last comment - we shouldn't expect behaviour like that in any part of London, or the UK. Just because I choose to live in an area of S. London doesn't mean I should be subject to violence. I'm sensible with where I go late at night, and who I'm with. But what can you do if you are met with violence on a well lit busy street? That should not be happening.
I'll also write to the council, and copy a letter to Weatherspoons, just in case there is anything more that can be done...
Yes I agree you have to report this sort of thing, I personally feel that the local Police do a pretty amazing job really and I'm sure they would do more if their hands were not tied by antiquated legalities which seem to protect the criminals and not the victims. I recently found all four of my tyres slashed and whilst the Police cannot really do much they were very reassuring and spent time explaining the different local crime prevention units that covered the area. That pub certainly attracts a certain type and should obviously be avoided where possible.
Sure, report it - why not, but as anonymous says - this is (south) London so no shock-horror I'm afraid.
Some bloke got stabbed to death in Blackheath a few years back - I believe outside El Pirata.
Try Bromley on a Friday/Saturday night if you want to witness a few rumbles post-closing time. Most of the places have bouncers nowadays so Greenwich isn't doing too badly. And where would oiks hang out, if not somewhere like Weatherspoons? The Spreadeagle?
I had two teeth knocked out there (Bromley, not the Spreadeagle) twenty years ago in an unprovoked attack (well I was wearing an afghan coat so perhaps deserved it).
But please don't be surprised at blokes having a row after a few beers - been going on since, oh....
Actually I think nano makes one of the most valid points. Surely it's more about the attitude of the management than the fact that the pub sells cheap beer. In fact I'm all for cheap beer. Let's not fool ourselves that the only people who fight after a few beers are the ones who can only afford cheap booze. But the management shouldn't be more active in preventing these drunken clowns from getting into this state.
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