Consultation, Consultation, Consultation
East Greenwich Old District Hosptial Development Proposals.
I don't know - you wait ages for a consultation then two come along at once...
I got a rather dull-looking leaflet through my door today from a company called First Base inviting me to a two-day consultation (what is it about two days? Some kind of legal requirement, perhaps?) for what they like to call The Heart of East Greenwich and the rest of us know as The Old District Hospital. You can tell it's 'worthy' because it's laid out in little boxes and contains artists impressions of boring designs that have clearly been agreed on by committee. Believe me - it makes the leaflet (and the designs) for Greenwich market look funky...
Can one object to a proposal on the grounds of its being boring? There's no doubt that we desperately need something on the site - Woolwich Road seems to get scruffier by the day and those dead shops are not going to regenerate until there is some kind of plan for the enormous hole left by the wrecking ball. And I can't really complain about the sort of thing they are proposing - new apartments (it annoys me when developers refer to every new dwelling they create as a new 'home' - homes are made from buildings by the people who live in them, not created wholesale by developers) and a selection of 'public service facilities' - whatever that means - a dole office, perhaps.
To be fair, they do go on to list two swimming pools (bye, bye, Arches) gyms, a 'wellness spa' (blimey) and a library. The doctors' surgeries, I assume, will replace the Vanbrugh Group Practice's building. I don't know about you, but I'm beginning to get a soft spot for the current VGP building though - neo-brutalist it may be, and in need of a spruce-up- but there is something about it that's growing on me.
The whole thing will be 'carbon neutral,' yada, yada, and they plan a square and more shops - (more? Like the ones we have are already are overflowing...) but there's something so - so anodyne about it all. As if they've just remembered East Greenwich exists and feel that they need to tick lots of boxes at once.
I don't have a huge problem with the contents of this development. But from the leaflet, the design looks dull and uninspired. Glass wavy structures with wood-plank decorations - just like every new build I've seen recently. Presumably they've put the best bits in the leaflet and none of them (or the photos of things the architects have created in the past) inspire any kind of enthusiasm in me. I like the way the developers describe the proposals as being 'sympathetic to the surrounding streets.' Presumably they mean 'sympathetic' in the sense of 'feeling sorry for...'
Of course - you may disagree. You may think that this is the Naughties style and it's cool. That's what we actually get to discuss on these consultation days (discuss, mind, - not necessarily be taken any notice of...) and its up to us to go and make our opinions heard. I don't really care if you disagree with me - it's taking part in the discussion that's important. And of course, the leaflet may just not do this proposal justice, so going along is the thing to do.
I'm going to have to go the second day (so don't be surprised if I don't joinin any discussions immediately) - but as with the Greenwich Market consultation, I'd love you to go along and let me know what you think - and, of course, let THEM know too...
Saturday 13 Oct, 2pm-5pm
Thursday 18th Oct, 5pm-8pm
Both days are held at The Forum, Trafalgar Road. http://www.firstbase.com/
In the meanwhile, I'll leave you with a photo I was kindly sent by a friend, one of a series taken in the few seconds that the old hospital's chimney was blown up. It is, I believe, the only series of its kind taken from that viewpoint (Humber Road.) No cheap gags, now, eh...?
I don't know - you wait ages for a consultation then two come along at once...
I got a rather dull-looking leaflet through my door today from a company called First Base inviting me to a two-day consultation (what is it about two days? Some kind of legal requirement, perhaps?) for what they like to call The Heart of East Greenwich and the rest of us know as The Old District Hospital. You can tell it's 'worthy' because it's laid out in little boxes and contains artists impressions of boring designs that have clearly been agreed on by committee. Believe me - it makes the leaflet (and the designs) for Greenwich market look funky...
Can one object to a proposal on the grounds of its being boring? There's no doubt that we desperately need something on the site - Woolwich Road seems to get scruffier by the day and those dead shops are not going to regenerate until there is some kind of plan for the enormous hole left by the wrecking ball. And I can't really complain about the sort of thing they are proposing - new apartments (it annoys me when developers refer to every new dwelling they create as a new 'home' - homes are made from buildings by the people who live in them, not created wholesale by developers) and a selection of 'public service facilities' - whatever that means - a dole office, perhaps.
To be fair, they do go on to list two swimming pools (bye, bye, Arches) gyms, a 'wellness spa' (blimey) and a library. The doctors' surgeries, I assume, will replace the Vanbrugh Group Practice's building. I don't know about you, but I'm beginning to get a soft spot for the current VGP building though - neo-brutalist it may be, and in need of a spruce-up- but there is something about it that's growing on me.
The whole thing will be 'carbon neutral,' yada, yada, and they plan a square and more shops - (more? Like the ones we have are already are overflowing...) but there's something so - so anodyne about it all. As if they've just remembered East Greenwich exists and feel that they need to tick lots of boxes at once.
I don't have a huge problem with the contents of this development. But from the leaflet, the design looks dull and uninspired. Glass wavy structures with wood-plank decorations - just like every new build I've seen recently. Presumably they've put the best bits in the leaflet and none of them (or the photos of things the architects have created in the past) inspire any kind of enthusiasm in me. I like the way the developers describe the proposals as being 'sympathetic to the surrounding streets.' Presumably they mean 'sympathetic' in the sense of 'feeling sorry for...'
Of course - you may disagree. You may think that this is the Naughties style and it's cool. That's what we actually get to discuss on these consultation days (discuss, mind, - not necessarily be taken any notice of...) and its up to us to go and make our opinions heard. I don't really care if you disagree with me - it's taking part in the discussion that's important. And of course, the leaflet may just not do this proposal justice, so going along is the thing to do.
I'm going to have to go the second day (so don't be surprised if I don't joinin any discussions immediately) - but as with the Greenwich Market consultation, I'd love you to go along and let me know what you think - and, of course, let THEM know too...
Saturday 13 Oct, 2pm-5pm
Thursday 18th Oct, 5pm-8pm
Both days are held at The Forum, Trafalgar Road. http://www.firstbase.com/
In the meanwhile, I'll leave you with a photo I was kindly sent by a friend, one of a series taken in the few seconds that the old hospital's chimney was blown up. It is, I believe, the only series of its kind taken from that viewpoint (Humber Road.) No cheap gags, now, eh...?
Happy consultation...
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
08:41
21 Comments:
I just read the leaflet, too. The most feeling I could muster was "better than what's there". The real concerns I have all centre around transportation and handling all the new people who will come to live here. I'd love to hear some discussion on that, but there doesn't seem to be any. Unfortunately, I don't think any amount of ignoring is going to make this problem go away.
I confess that it's something that bothers me too - the Lovell's Wharf Development being the other potential bottleneck. Not that it seems to be worrying either the developers or the council.
I was just going to say the same - I already can't get on to my train at Maze Hill most of the time. With 700 new flats at Lovell's Wharf and god knows how many more at the transplanted 'Heart of East Greenwich', there's going to be real trouble. Shame that we're left out of both Crossrail and the East London line extension, as per.
I spoke to someone at the Council about this development recently and they confirmed that the Arches would be closed when the new gym opens (and sold to developers for flats). However, not wishing to be lazy, but the Arches is already too far to go for the Gym - roll on the day they put on in West Greenwich!
They also said that the site would be mixed tenures - council language for cheap and nasty flats that are still too expensive for the people they are aimed at.
Of course, if they gave a toss, they'd have worked out a plan for the site 10 years ago, when they decided to shut the hospital.
But they don't give a toss, and they didn't.
And by the looks of things, they still don't.
Dear lazy lulu, consider the benefits of the gym being another 2min walk on top of the 7min from West Greenwich, they would be less time in the gym breathing the polluted East Greenwich air, less time having to speak to us unclean East Greenwich types. Consider walking at a brisk pace a part of your exercise plan or a run if some one is taking a keen interest at your ipod and virgin trainers. Maybe Greenwich council could supply some straw and a septic foot-bath outside the Maritime Museum so you don't carry foot and mouth over into West Greenwich from East side of the meridian.
I definitely think we can complain about the development being too boring.
I had a moan about this at the first public meeting when the scary phrase "low rise, high density" was used.
I was assured that design would be a key element, but if it is why can't we have it designed by an Architectural competition and not a developer?
If English Partnerships and Greenwich Partnerships are serious about design and redesigning the heart of East Greenwich, they'd go to the experts - a RIBA organised competition.
But no - we've had a strange "prefered bid" process and the result is we will get a new version of all the other developments springing up. They're all designed by a kit on a computer which is why they all look the same.
TOO BORING and A WASTED OPPORTUNITY should be grounds for complaint. Just up the road we have a world heritage site and a Wren and a Hawksmoor. Lets demand the noughties equivalent on our doorstep!
Lula, according to the man in the chippie, there will be a new gym in the development on Greenwich High Road (in the warehouses on the left hand side of the road as you drive towards the station).
Thanks Fat Cat - will investigate!
And for lovely Anonymous - Thanks for the helpful comment. It's nothing about not liking East Greenwich! But perhaps you might think before you write next time. I would love to manage that walk in "7 minutes" but unfortunately I go to the gym to be able to excercise indoors - in the warm and in a controlled, medically safe environment with a trainer. For me that "7 minute" walk takes a lot longer when you have had serious lung operations! Get your facts first!
If there was a gym in West Greenwich I might be able to manage that smaller distance, but walking to East Greenwich - it's not gonna happen for me any time soon!
But they have to leave the swimming pool in the Arches don't they? It's a listed swimming pool.
Are there any facilities specifically for teenagers and young people designed into the scheme? If not there should be no complaints if the project is blighted by youngsters hanging about and annoying other users.
While I'm on the subject, did any of you know that the Greenwich Connexions Office is a dismal looking building towards the top of Blackwall Lane? How dare Greenwich invest so little in young people?
Lulu, please stop moaning about how far away East Greenwich is, especially as you obviously drive there.
Proud to be East
anonymous, good call. Yes, tis is a significant site, and there should be a competition. The old hospital was shamefully neglceted, but at least its designers made a statement.
And Lula, you should be ashamed of asking for a gymn in West Greenwich. Walk to Arches, or the hospital site, and you'll get more exercise at no cost whatsoever, walking across one of the most beautiful green spaces in Britain...
Paul, I am not sure that the walk is through a beautiful green space on a cold, dark and wet February night after a long day in the office. I am suprsied that there isnt a gym in West Greenwich, having said that it doesnt take very long to get to the Reebok in the Wharf.
How about a nice new Section 106 Gym in New Capitol Quay??? As far as I can see the best way to get a gym would be for the council to insist on (a public) one paid for by one of these new developments. There used to be a public baths at the end of Royal Hill, if I remember correctly - so it would be in keeping with tradition. IMHO the council is too meek when it comes to Section 106 agreements. These developers have the cash to make things happen and this is the only point in a development process where the council have them over any kind of (albeit small, St Bernard's neck-sized)barrel.
The council are very meek with big ugly developments but quite the opposite with the poor unfortunate council tax paying voters. I wonder why that is?
...and smaller proposals. I mean - what harm would a TEMPORARY ferris wheel outside the Pepys Centre do? Yet that would be a total eyesore, and has been refused, whereas giant apartment blocks will be, presumably,totally invisible.
Unfortunately many good architects will turn down work in our borough due to the council's planning 'process'. Having just had to endure said 'process' I really cannot blame them.
I think all the 'brave' anons are being a tad harsh on Lulu. She has a medical condition that makes a 7 min walk (my god I've NEVER managed a 7 min walk to the Arches from West Greenwich). My concern is I frequently dragged my offspring through the park; in the summer and along Trafalgar road in the winter to his swim class. I hate driving and if the Arches closes I will head towards Deptford rather than walk/hike further with my child. I think it's ridiculous to be blathering on about some perceived rivalry between East and West Greenwich. What's important is once again our public services are being eroded for profit.
Agreed - we should be united on getting facilites for all. After all, in a selfish sort of way , the more facilities there are in W. Greenwich, the less crowded the facilities at E. Greenwich.
I love it all...
I do hope there is another post about your trip to the 'consultation'. I went on Thursday and have to say it seemed like the end of the world ... it could be so good, but it is very dull. We deserve better. I know the argument about development, and agree something is better than nothing. But two half baked sessions showing us the 'plans' is not consultation. It is more akin ti 'we know what you want and it is .. 650 units and 200 parking spaces' .. the idea if getting on a bus ... The council seem happy to see these developments in isolation. I almost give up. But no, if the strippers and gamers can appeal why can't we. i do lovw the public space all pushed up against the junction ... and ther 'tenure blind' developmet at the nice end .. tell me who can afford part ownership of a 4 bed house? I guess they will be for outright sale .. mixed communities, but not at the back away from the main road ... and no 50 M pool in an olympic borough ... waste. Leave it as a dirt patch I say
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