Super Casino goes to Manchester
Well - there's a turn up for the books. Certainly not what the bookies were predicting, eh, which just goes to show you shouldn't gamble - it's a risky thing...
I'll nail my colours to the mast now. I was in favour of the Casino. I really thought that all things considered it was good for Greenwich. I know all about the crime/addiction/degeration arguments - and can't say it was all going to be perfect - but nothing is and I tend to think that it was well out of the way of where most people live, in a separate area - it's a reasonable distance, I'd say, to the nearest current flats. I'm not, of course talking about residential areas waiting to be built - frankly if people choose to move into an area after a casino's opened then that's up to them. So I'm mildly disappointed - but not gutted. I wasn't enough in favour to march...
Anschutz were holding the Dome to ransom, of course, saying that huge amounts of development money would be witheld if they didn't get their own way (I've got to say that if I had been on the committee I'd have not given them the licence just for that - blackmail is never an attractive thing.)It will be interesting to see how much of that development is actually stopped. In fact, I'm fascinated about that entire Penisuala development. I bet Mr Prescott isn't popular in a few circles today.
Personally, I predict that AEG will have another go. They've always said they wouldn't go for a smaller casino - it was all or nothing for them - but I suspect that now they've lost The Big One they'll change their tune and go for any second round that may just happen to appear.
In the meanwhile, it's dug Anschutz out of one small hole re. the Tutankhamun exhibition which is due to hit the Dome in November. The Egyptian Head of Antiquities had refused to allow the exhibition to come if there was a casino, saying it would be disrespectful to the relics (though contrary to other reports the famous mask was never going to come our way - it's too fraglie to leave Egypt now.) Anschutz was going to have to decide whether they should delay the casino to accommodate the exhibition - now they are relieved of that decision.
I know many of you will be delighted to see that the Dome lost the bid. For my money, I think it would have been a good thing.
I'll nail my colours to the mast now. I was in favour of the Casino. I really thought that all things considered it was good for Greenwich. I know all about the crime/addiction/degeration arguments - and can't say it was all going to be perfect - but nothing is and I tend to think that it was well out of the way of where most people live, in a separate area - it's a reasonable distance, I'd say, to the nearest current flats. I'm not, of course talking about residential areas waiting to be built - frankly if people choose to move into an area after a casino's opened then that's up to them. So I'm mildly disappointed - but not gutted. I wasn't enough in favour to march...
Anschutz were holding the Dome to ransom, of course, saying that huge amounts of development money would be witheld if they didn't get their own way (I've got to say that if I had been on the committee I'd have not given them the licence just for that - blackmail is never an attractive thing.)It will be interesting to see how much of that development is actually stopped. In fact, I'm fascinated about that entire Penisuala development. I bet Mr Prescott isn't popular in a few circles today.
Personally, I predict that AEG will have another go. They've always said they wouldn't go for a smaller casino - it was all or nothing for them - but I suspect that now they've lost The Big One they'll change their tune and go for any second round that may just happen to appear.
In the meanwhile, it's dug Anschutz out of one small hole re. the Tutankhamun exhibition which is due to hit the Dome in November. The Egyptian Head of Antiquities had refused to allow the exhibition to come if there was a casino, saying it would be disrespectful to the relics (though contrary to other reports the famous mask was never going to come our way - it's too fraglie to leave Egypt now.) Anschutz was going to have to decide whether they should delay the casino to accommodate the exhibition - now they are relieved of that decision.
I know many of you will be delighted to see that the Dome lost the bid. For my money, I think it would have been a good thing.
Labels: News
posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
13:38
16 Comments:
I guess I am not too bothered by the decision, although I am a little disappointed that it is Manchester rather than Blackpool who have ended up as winners. I would have liked Greenwich to have won but it would have led to accusations of a London-centric bias following the Olympics and all that. So maybe it is good that somewhere outside of the capital will gain for once. Prescott obviously didn't help the cause. But what do you expect, really? But then, the whole thing is crazy, restricting the entire country to one super casino? Frankly, it's an embarrassment!
I'm in two minds about the whole peninsula development all round really, and I doubt a casino would have raised the quality overall, so perhaps it’s a good thing. Although I'm sure the developers will ensure there is still plenty of badly built modern housing, naff chain stores and burger bars for us all to moan about after all! Or am I just being cynical?
I just hope the whole area will remain a nice place to cycle round on a Sunday morning. We will see.
I confess that when I saw a thing on TV about the new hotel that was planned to go with the Super casino I worried a little for the Thames path - they SURELY wouldn't take that away from us? SURELY? Of course, it would seem that Anschutz won't be bothering at all now...
On another matter, I agree that the housing quality is poor - at least Canary Wharf's new builds LOOKED good (though I did have a test out of a couple of flats there and the quality's dreadful there too.)I wouldn't buy anywhere on the Peninsula to live - not least because I remember them "capping" the area before the Millennium and refuse to believe that they covered all the pollution to the kind of depth that those foundations are going.
Every so often I pose as a new buyer to go and look round new builds and it shocks me every time. Look beyond the state of the art sound systems and underfloor heating and you have what can only really be described as prefabs.
I admit to being rather pleased for mancester actually - the poor guys had been told not to even think about getting a super casino - I don't know if you saw the Ch 4 news last night but there was no one at Mancester to cover it because they were so convinced they wouldn't win. I thought it was rather sweet.
My problem with anything other than something EXTREMELY commercial on the Peninsula is that people just wouldn't go and we'd be stuck with an even worse white elephant than we have now.
The environmental thingy that's been suggested sounds very nice - but isn't that what they put in the Dome first time round?
"It's a reasonable distance from the nearest flat"
It's a five minute walk, fer chrissakes! I'm always astonished when I catch the bus from the Dome back to East Greenwich that so many people get off at LegoLand. They wait for fifteen minutes just so they don't have to walk for five?
Don't worry about the environmental thingy - it won't happen. And AEG will regret playing poker with Chris Roberts, as he grittily convinces them to fold and they end up building two big nice hotels anyway. "It's for the 'lympics, you understand?"
Ok - five minutes, schmive minutes - let's face it - it's still further away than any of the other candidates' nearest residents.
I truly didn't have a big problem with having a casino at Greenwich. I still think it may well happen. We'll see.
The proposal that the Government's consultant's wanted to support in the 2001 competition is now available.
Just type Millennium Dome in Google blog search and the applied planetary engineering site should appear top hit. Which article varies, just go into the site and the one page synopsis is the most recent posting.
Possibly the Government overuled the front line consultants.
I live on the GMV estate and while I realise the design is not to everyones taste, I can say that the flats are built to a high spec. They are designed by Ralph Erskine and have won quite a few design awards over the last 5 years.
People get caught up with the idea that if a flat or house isnt bricks and morter it is pre-fab and therefore of inferior quality - this isn't necessarily the case and you will find that in a lot of countries, particularly northern Europe and Scandinavia (where most of the GMV flat components are built and/or designed), this type of build is the norm.
A friend of mine used to work for Norman Fosters architectural practice and he did a study on GMV about 4 years back. His conclusion was that it was a good project - fairly green, sustainable, an ecology park, quite spacious flats, lots of which are available on an affordable basis.
If I'm honest I'd rather live in a victorian semi off Royal Hill, but in the meantime, GMV isnt too bad!
How are they for insulation? Do they lose much heat - and can you hear your neighbours?
Also - are you in one of those flats which has a central heating system for the whole building? If so does it work well and is it reasonably priced?
Forgive me being nosy - but I really am interested - I don't know many people living in the GMV - though I sometimes nose around the show flats when they come on the market ;0)
To Roger - thanks for the link - I'm going to read it tonight...
Maybe you know whether the cap put over the polluted ground is deep enough to seal it when the foundations for flats are being sunk?
Insulation is great - I very rarely have my heating on. I've had no problem with neighbours - either me hearing them of them hearing me - but I have heard that there were problems of this type with some of the newer flats. Although as far as I no this was resolved a while back.
You are right about the CHP. This is the one thing I would say isnt great. It was billed as a green alternative which would also be cheaper. It's not cheaper and there have been a few teething problems. Again, I think this is gradually getting sorted out.
In general though it is a nice place to live - plenty of green space, next to the river and very few cars.
Thank you! I think the examples I've seen have been quite new and seemed a bit flimsy to me - so it's good to hear they're ok.
I had my reservations about that central heating system when I saw it - it seems that there's nowhere to go if/when things go wrong or get expensive. But such is the problem with any leasehold - my sister has a flat in a Victorian conversion and has leasehold issues...
But you must have good views - and of course you must be very close to the conservation area. I am glad to hear that the flats aren't as bad as I had thought.
Ah, I must admit that when I mentioned 'badly built modern housing' in my original comment I wasn't referring to GMV specifically. I have actually always quite liked the look of the apartments there whilst cycling past (though why anyone would actually chose to live in such a remote place, in London terms, I have never understood) and I remember all the eco friendly aspects of them which were discussed in the news at the time they were built which sounded good. I was referring more to the fact that when 'they' start building in anger on the peninsular I don't think they will keep that quality up...but we will see.
The ones that bother me are in between Glenforth St and Fingal St - I just walked past them and saw the way they're building them - they look like they'll blow away in the first storm. Does anyone else think they bear an uncanny resemblence to portacabins stacked on top of each other?
Hi m32,
I think 1 of the main benefits of GMV is its remoteness (having said that it is only 15 mins to Canary Wharf and central Greenwich). I've lived on the Harrow Road and the South Circular in the past and the noise was unbearable. At GMV you never hear a thing - you could be in the country its that quiet.
On a totally unrelated topic, you menioned good places to get curry a few days back. If you fancy going a bit further afield there is a place called the Murgh Masala in Norbury which is, without doubt the best, most authentic I've ever eaten. It's not much to look at (think 1970's cafe) but the food is top drawer and you can bring your own wine. In the same area Tooting High Street has some great Keralese places.
I'll second the Murgh Masala - it's fab - as are many places around Tooting. But I'm afraid that just seems to convince me even further that Greenwich isn't the place to get top notch curry. I haven't lost hope - and have heard about one somewhere like Lee or Honor oak - can't remember but not a million miles away, that apparently is v. good indeed. Will stuff my face, then report back...
Hi anonymous,
Thanks for the additional curry tip...I will try these out soon. As for GMV and remoteness, it's all down to personal choice I guess. I do love cycling and walking round there for the very fact that it is so quiet and I can see that it would be relaxing. I worry that I would feel a bit in the middle of nowhere after a while though, but that's just me! I would agree that is definitely preferable to living anywhere near the south circular!
Thanks again for the curry tip.
I'll have a look through the material Jones Lang LaSalle sent when in the bid. This had a lot about the houses and insulation etc.
I've also got a map of the Dome and the Greenwich peninsular which does literally cover a wall.
Without checking and committing myself to a depth, the cap will be sufficient for the foundations. It's one of those figures I had but didn't commit to memory. I'll see if I have it somewhere, if not I'll try and look it up.
the plan for the Dome had that as the visitor, conference centre. All these UN, climate change meetings etc would have been held there now. this would have driven the hotel side.
the interior design was going to be loosly based on USS Enterprise mission control Houston. A space ship taking a planet on a journey to the future. The concept of time was to fit in with Greenwich etc.
The large screens in the Dome would have been streaming in data in real time about the planet. From satellites, monitoring stations etc. the super computers may or may not been at the Dome. his would have been linked with the climate models etc that have been in the news over the weekend.
There is a lot of misinformation. They said there wasn't a early warning system for the SE Asia Tsumnami. There was going to be one at the dome. It was another revenue stream to finance the project, text messages on natural hazards.
This central development would have then regenerated the area with all the associated development. Ecology, oceanography, climatology companies etc. Imagine the equivalent of NASA and Microsoft setting up in Greenwich. It would have been very cosmopolitan, right at the leading edge of planetary management. Every media organisation in the world would ahve been there this week which would have been good for local business. The development would have all been sustainable and ecological. All really pleasant with an ethos that hopefull everyone would have fully approved of.
I have put this letter for all local politicians on my site. I was gutted when AEG won. I was really looking forard to working in Greenwich. With environment the top of the world agenda £billions
would have now ben coming into Greenwich. It would once again be that world centre it was.
http://millenniumprojecttwo.blogspot.com/2007/02/letter-to-greenwich-mps-and-councillors.html
This is how I know about the cap. With so much development needing to be initiated there I needed to know that the associated building was possible.
At some point the truth will come out and you probably find that Greenwich has been very badly treated in this Millennium Dome charade.
I don't doubt it. I am sure that much has gone on that we don't know about.
Thanks for the description of "here's what we could have won..." Sounds fun - but far too ethical to have actually won in what was essentially a commercial deal.
It is at least a relief to know the cap is thick enough to keep the nasty stuff in.
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