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posted by The Greenwich Phantom at
16:33
Greenwich is one of the coolest "uncool" places there is in London. It's not profoundly unfashionable - rather somewhere where it doesn't occur to people that there is anything more than a few museums, a nice park and the Cutty Sark. The really adventurous might know about the Trafalgar Tavern or venture out to Greenwich market on a Sunday afternoon, but essentially, Greenwich is still relatively undiscovered for one of the great regions of London. I adore Greenwich - but I'm not blind to its faults either. In this journal I take an affectionate but honest - at times brutally so - look, giving my own personal low-down on the things to do - and one or two of the things NOT to do in Greenwich. I am being unashamedly parochial here. I will talk about the tourist sites, of course - how could I not when we have a World Heritage Site on our doorstep - but also about the things which make our town great - the little things. Interesting vistas, cool shops, bizarre novelties and quirky one-offs which make this place buzz. Greetings, by the way, to all of you who have travelled with me from Livejournal - and thank you for making the journey.
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31 Comments:
The dreaded Greenwich Inc have recently got their hands on this and are closing it down - presumably so that the gay guys and gals who got thrown out of the Gloucester when the same organisation turned it into a poncey and overpriced eatery have to go to The Powder Monkey instead - which is very small, very noisy and completely devoid of any atmosphere whatsoever.
You're kidding! Is ANYWHERE safe? You can bet your bottom dollar that any soul the R&C had (and it does have a rough & ready charm)will slowly ooze away. sadly I suspect it won't actually make it to the Powder Monkey. Is it me or is Mr Dowling truly trying to ghetto-ise the whole of Greenwich, compartmentalising us all so that he can squeeze ever last cent out of each of us? Tut.
My other half and I decided to pop out for a pint or two at the Rose & Crown last night and to say I felt sick as we walk towards a dark and obviously recently closed pub is an understatement.
We moved to Greenwich 4 months ago to be closer to the friendly unpretentious offerings Greenwich has like the Rose and the deceased Gloucester, I have to say I'm gutted. We've tried Powder Mokey a couple of times but talk about 'zero atmosphere' It's a money making vacuum with clone-a-sexuals skipping up and down badly decorated staircases looking for the next pill with over priced drinks chucked in for good measure.
Perhaps 'inc' have figured that by buying up all the bars and restaurants, they can continue to spew out crappy offerings without all the care & effort that's needed to survive in the eye of competition.
What's next? are inc going to buy the air in Greenwich and charge us pay-as-you-go to breath it?
Let's just say I'm very sad that the Rose has gone. I'm a licensee myself and maybe there is now a market for a great little pub with good staff run my an independent person who cares and who wont comply to the 'body snatcher' style take over that inc is pushing for.
It reminds me of TESCO verses Mr & Mrs Smith and their corner shop.
Not happy....
If you are a licensee yourself, maybe there is a nice little niche opportunity just opening up? There are a lot of very disappointed people just at the moment. I've always thought that a nice unpretentious wine bar would do well - perhaps stocked with Theatre of Wine lovelies (if you don't know it, do visit Daniel there - he's fab.)But just a nice, interesting boozer not full of meatheads or posers would be a popular choice here. We desperately need alternatives to G.I. foods (and drinks...)
PS if you start one, DO let me know. I will tell everyone about it, then bring a bunch of mates along to review...
I've just stumbled on this website (which seems to be a great source of local info/gossip - thanks!) purely by accident, as I was trying to find out what happened to my favourite pub. Terrible news that it has been closed down by Greenwich Inc. I've lived in Greenwich for 6 years now and I have always enjoyed popping into the Rose for a drink or two. Bar managers have come and gone but the Rose has always had a friendly, down-to-earth atmosphere. I'm gutted that it's gone and have no idea where I will drink locally from now on. Probably at home with friends! I do hope that somewhere similar opens soon (and I don't mean the Powder Monkey - a vile, plasticky place that could be anywhere). Greenwich is home to a lot of "older" (i.e. 30+) gay men and women and there must be a market for a non-pretentious, friendly pub like the Rose.
Welcome to the site! Now you've found me, I hope you'll hang around...
I agree that peopl eneed an alternative. I would argue that not just Greenwich's gay population, but ALL its people of drinking age need a break from the seemingly unstoppable march of Greenwich Inc.
I can't say I have huge amounts against GI taking over places if they were failing - but as far as I know the R&C wasn't, and nor was the Gloucester (am I right in that?) I just wish that they weren't so obviously only in it for the cash.
We do need to make sure that we really patronise the independents around here so that they don't suffer the same fate.
The one decent place left to go in Greenwich (for 'our kind') and the new Lord Greenwich Frank the bl**dy yank has gone and sunk it.
Another tacky, tasteless venue to add to the portforlio then Frank!
Here is another up-date for ya.
http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/63/6379/Rose_and_Crown/Greenwich
http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/63/6379/Rose_and_Crown/Greenwich
Well - there you go. The Plot Thickens...
So it's all down to evil Punch Taverns (they who made such a pigs ear of The Barley Mow in Limehouse...)
Hope they do sell it - to someone who actually gives a damn.
It`s getting harder to boycott the INC stink. I hope Oliver`s picks up some Rose and Crown business. But should you switch to Olivier`s magnificent catacombs keep the noise down people are trying to eat upstairs. Laminates dangling into seabass etc.
I hear that Olivier has installed sound proofing - Round One goes to him...
Does anyone actually like the Powder Monkey?
I confess I haven't been in. I keep meaning to but I get a bit intimidated.
I work for the Powder Monkey, and may I just emphasise this for anyone who didnt read the reviews on the other site...
Frank Dowling has NOT bought the Rose and Crown. This has been confirmed by the bar staff at the R&C who frequent the Powder Monkey, the manager of the R&C, and senior management of Greenwich Inc. Just goes to show how rumours fly around eh :P Apparantly Frank was offered the R&C a year or 2 back, but refused because it didnt make enough money. But thats just gossip I heard from the R&C staff.
Im sorry about the way people on this site feel about the Powder Monkey though, maybe its been aimed at younger guys like myself, but I didnt think it was as bad as a lot of people here make it out to be even if it wasnt to their taste...
Hi Ben - thanks for putting us straight. I haven't actually been in the Powder Monkey yet as it looks a bit young and trendy for the likes of me, but if everyone's as freindly as your good self, I might make it in there yet.
Here here, well said phantom. I went to Monkey one Sunday and it was fine. I'm 35 in June and found it okay. But then I have had a botox top up hehe. Perhaps we could introduce a Greenwich meet-up what ever that is? Like a few friends of Dorothy getting together for a laugh and a drink. Mind you, I need to loose a few Kg's or it might end up looking like the next set of "Fat Fighters" sketches.
Cheers....
Tee hee. Trouble is, I'm not sure I want to have minor surgery just so I can go into a bar...
I suspect that there will be a consensus at some point where the 'FoD' will find a pub that everyone likes and just meet up there. These places aren't 'made,' they evolve - because the place is worth meeting at. May I suggest The Old Friends? You'd have your work cut out there - it's a ghastly place - IMHO the worst in the area - with definitely dodgy overtones - it could really do with a mass invasion of sanity to drive out the nasty elements that chalk offensive things on the outside walls.
Not sure if its is breaking news but word has it that the Rose and Crown is due to re-open on (or about) 17th May. I don't know if they are going to re-market the venue to a specific crowd but if we want it to remain, or get back to being, our friendly neighbourhood gay bar then we need to spread the word about the re opening.
Do we know who the 'new' owners are? That may well have some impact on how it's marketed...
It's official- The Powder Monkey is now a STRAIGHT VENUE with a VERY HOMOPHOBIC crowd. Last night my partner & I popped in and found straight guys pointing, sneering and looking for trouble with the tiny 10% of gay customers.The previous night a gay guy was QUEER BASHED having a cigarette outside the venue. There was also under-age straight guys, people selling pills etc etc. This place has gone downhill and the management are after bigger profits,letting the place get taken over by straight cheap crowds who either can't get in INC or won't pay a fiver over there. The owner should clean his act up, and tell the gay community its now a straight venue before something more serious happens!
This is deeply, deeply worrying. Frankly I wouldn't care WHO they were bashing - that behaviour isn't acceptable and the landlords should have nipped it in the bud. How utterly vile.
Stuff like that makes Greenwich town centre a dangerous place for everyone whatever their sexual orientation.
Short of voting with our feet, what is to be done though - if that kind of behaviour is acceptable to the management, then they need to be punished in the only bit of their anatomies that would hurt - their pockets. The R&C is re-opened - and not Greenwich Inc. With a bit of luck, there won't be enough meatheads to go round all the Inc venues and one or more will have to close. If they can't look after the clients they were clearly aiming at with the Powder Monkey, they don't deserve to have them.
It is disheartening that vicious rumours seem to be continually spread about The Powder Monkey as vast exagerations and in most cases, completely imagined happenings that seem only founded on the fact it is owned by Greenwich Inc. I will admit, the Powder Monkey has some let downs, and I can only offer my sincere apologies for a drop in some of the standards with the venue. However, some of these accusations are so vicious that I feel a great need to defend the Powder Monkey, and in some cases, myself. I have been fairly recently promoted to Assistant Manager of the Powder Monkey, and it is my main priority to attempt to repair the damage that has so grieviously scared the Powder Monkey's image. I am not so proud as to deny that there has been mistakes made with the Powder Monkey, and that some of the reputation we have has been earned. However, I will stress that there have been, and most importantly, will be, a vast range of changes that will only serve to improve the Powder Monkey in an attempt to recover some support from the gay community of Greenwich.
You may think I say all this as an attempt to save my job, do my job, etc etc. Being on Greenwich Inc's payroll though does not give me the luxury of being appreciated, or rewarded for my efforts. I have worked in the Powder Monkey since it opened, which has instilled in me a great deal of loyalty and passion for the venue. I want it to succeed because I believe in the idea of a gay trendy night club/bar in Greenwich. One that is not so easily despised and hated, but one that in some ways can unite us as a community. High hopes, I agree. But theres no harm in dreaming is there?
In responce to Anonymous who states "It's official- The Powder Monkey is now a STRAIGHT VENUE with a VERY HOMOPHOBIC crowd. Please let me keep the facts straight and state that the Powder Monkey is still very much a GAY venue. Not Gay friendly,Not polysexual. GAY. Over the past month I have monitored the doors personally on weekends and some weeknights to ensure that no groups of typical straight louts get in. Security have turned away 10s of them every weekend who try to get in. The whole crowd of the PM has changed drastically, and will continue to change. We've imposed strict door policies on Caps, tracksuites etc, and overall the clientell has already shown vast signs of improving. As for homophoebia... Im not so nieve as to say it doesnt happen, Im not going to do a sexuality test with everyone who gets in. However, I have trained the staff in monitoring and looking out for any kind of abuse. Of which is dealt with by security swiftly.
As for the "Gay bashing" as anon tried to make out, unfortunately the man who was attacked was no saint either, and according to the reports from witnesses, he was as much as an antagonist as the group. The man who was attacked was brought into the Powder Monkey to be cleaned up and taken care of. However, we ended up having to eject him as he was obviously overly drunk and attacked one of the security by slapping her around the face and throwing a pint at her. As much as we wanted to defend him, he simply did not help himself by the way he acted towards us.
As I mentioned above, the Powder Monkey is changing, vastly. And I appreciate that there are those of you who do take the time to express your oppinions. Although it will never be possible to please everyone, I am determined to prove Powder Monkeys worth to everyone to at least appreciate the services we are offering, if not want them yourselves. It just requires an open mind, and a second chance. And in the coming months, that is as much as I can hope for.
Thanks Ben - it's nice to see a bit of passion - maybe you can turn this palce into somewhere as well-loved as The Rose & Crown - I'll definitely be watching. Tell me - you say this place is Gay with a capitol G - does that mean that straight people (I don't mean meatheads - I mean decent, straight-ahead straight people) are actuvely discouraged?
Not really a problem either way - just good for readers to know...
Straight people are not actively discouraged, I see no grounds for descriminating against a sexuality no matter what the bar labels itself. However, I remain vigilant that only decent straight-ahead people in general will be allowed in.
Yet another incident in the Powder Monkey last night. Again, a gay man was attacked and beaten by straight men. the pub was forced to close at about 10 o'clock. In my opinion (from the point of view of a person that has spent too many evenings in the Powder Monkey and have witnessed more then my fair share of these 'incidents') the problem does not lie with the bar staff but with the security staff who do not employ any form of door policy or standard when deciding who gets through the door and are even less inclined to get involved when an incident does occur (in fact they seem more interested in chatting to their friends and getting them free drinks then proctecting their customers - at least one of them anyway).
Someone needs to tell Greenwich Inc, that regardless of their feelings toward gay people, they have a duty of care to their customers and, by allowing the kind of trouble that the pub has seen to continue, they are being uterlly reckless and have demonstrated a severe lack of respect for their customers. I, for one, will not be saddened to see the place close.
I hear this place has now closed.
...and re-opened again - check out http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/2007/07/rose-crown-refit.html
Does anyone know why the Powder Monkey closed?
In response to the question above (Does anyone know why the powder monkey closed?) - I can only imagine it was one of 3 reasons:
1 - Problems with the licencing (due to the number of incidents involving the police)
2 - Police pressure
3 - Greenwich Inc have finally decided it's more trouble then it's worth.
Personally, I'm not too upset that the place is closed. It's never a good thing to see gay bars closing but, in this case, I think it was necessary.
I believe it is to reopen as
'The W Bar' (and presumably straight) - God's knows what (trouble) awaits!
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